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Post by socialirregular on Mar 23, 2017 14:35:45 GMT
Sorry just need to vent a bit, but I am pretty pissed off about the new Khador themes. They get to do what we do, but only with less restrictions? What? Is this just the edition where Legion gets shat on?
I dunno, maybe it is time for a break from the game. At least until they bring Legion up more, getting tired of the uphill battles.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 23, 2017 15:35:57 GMT
I can immediately relate. Khador has no reason to be getting so much board control in terms of advance moves and now denying AD. Legion for once got something unique and thematic and then immediately gives it to another faction. It really is underhanded and unfair. But unfortunately it's what we have to live with now.
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rivers
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Post by rivers on Mar 23, 2017 18:58:06 GMT
While I don't disagree that someone at PP has a raging hard-on for Khador - which is fine considering their competitive value over the entirety of Mk2 - I also agree that it seems like they're also being extra #designspace-y to the factions that succeeded in the past as well and were reigned in.
That said, I don't think it should have been thought that the Ravens of War AD perk was going to be unique to Legion. With this first run of sort of "generic" themes, they're definitely operating off of a set of templates and perks they felt were appropriate. There are a few more unique ones here and there, but it definitely doesn't surprise me. Whether or not Khador needs/deserves that particular perk, I'm not qualified to say, but just like any theme can hand out free solos, or put down wall templates, or clouds, or whatever, removing AD is just another trait they are having available. SOMEONE else was bound to get it eventually.
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Post by anderfreak on Mar 23, 2017 22:14:05 GMT
To be entirely honest, as a Khador player primarily, I don't think we should have anti-AD in our repertoire either.
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Post by Cheesebeard on Mar 23, 2017 22:26:25 GMT
The same theme also allowing all of their non-character jacks, plus Behemoth, AND giving a bonus for taking jacks, (among all the other things they can take) is extra disheartening.
Not sure why Khador is getting so much so often, and things may balance more down the line, but right now it does feel pretty lopsided.
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
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Post by Whiskie on Mar 23, 2017 23:24:39 GMT
It makes total sense honestly. Ravens of War denies AD because before the battle Striders harass and outwit the enemy army placing them at a disadvantage. This Khador theme has a similar thing going on except it uses Kossites and Kayazy to do the same thing. It makes sense from a fluff perspective and I don't see it as treading on Legion's toes in any way for them to get a similar benefit.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
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Post by princeraven on Mar 24, 2017 3:21:42 GMT
Personally I don't think anyone should have theme forces that interfere with your opponent during the deployment phase in a way that cannot be countered.
But if they must have such theme forces in the game it should have heavy restrictions on what you can take, which is something they achieved with Ravens of War. It should not be "yeah just take all the non-character jacks you want and even your most powerful character plus mechanics and also get free points and anti AOE/electroleap tech for the mechanics on top of remving AD for your opponent."
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Post by maximumhippo on Mar 24, 2017 4:10:12 GMT
Khador is my other faction, I looked at that theme and thought 'well this is BS'. From a theme standpoint, it makes sense that all the armies are going to have scout forces or border patrols or whatever. Fine. The idea behind removing AD is that you have shown up before the enemy is prepared. Flavorwise, fluff wise, there is no way in hell a bunch of Khador heavies including effing Behemoth are going to sneak up on ANYBODY. I really don't like this theme force because to me it just doesn't make sense in Khador.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 24, 2017 5:14:29 GMT
Im not really sure how people with literal smokestacks on their backs sneak up on people either (And Have stealth to boot) but that's life for you I guess.
On a more serious not Im not sure why Legion is so upset, its not that amazing of a theme force really.
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Post by cainuslupus on Mar 24, 2017 5:26:33 GMT
Im not really sure how people with literal smokestacks on their backs sneak up on people either (And Have stealth to boot) but that's life for you I guess. On a more serious not Im not sure why Legion is so upset, its not that amazing of a theme force really. I thinks it's because RoW theme is VERY restrictive, while Khadors is not. Also, Khador is a far superior Faction right now. So I think it's the main reason why it stings.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Mar 24, 2017 5:44:12 GMT
Well ROW seems to at least grant a larger Infantry Variety. But I don't know the fine details of Legion Play....But I see that it feels nearly identical in many ways.
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Post by cainuslupus on Mar 24, 2017 5:51:26 GMT
Well ROW seems to at least grant a larger Infantry Variety. But I don't know the fine details of Legion Play....But I see that it feels nearly identical in many ways. It's really limiting too, leaving mostly infantry removal options. You can pick your flavour, whether you prefer meelee infantry removal, or ranged one. Or Raptors, thats are great - period. On the other hand battlegroup limitations are brutal, removing all heavy hitter options other than bonded ones. And while it thematically makes sense in RoW, in Khador it doesn't. Oh well, PP is dropping the ball reapeatedly as of late.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
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Post by princeraven on Mar 24, 2017 6:26:46 GMT
Well ROW seems to at least grant a larger Infantry Variety. But I don't know the fine details of Legion Play....But I see that it feels nearly identical in many ways. The thing about Ravens of War is that it restricts access nearly every hard hitting option Legion has. No character beasts, obviously, which includes our Behemoth equivalent in Typhon; no Carnivean, Scythean or Ravagore; no Swordsmen, Hex Hunters or Blackfrost Shard; no Warlord. The hardest hitting thing in the list is Raptors which are 5 POW 10 Weapon Masters for 18 points. It also restricts access to Hellmouths and Shepherds which is about as big a deal in Legion as restricting Choir of Menoth would be in Protectorate. Not to mention that Legion is still at its heart a warbeast faction and giving us bonuses based on units taken just isn't as good as giving us (or indeed Khador) bonuses for taking warbeasts.
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Lanz
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Post by Lanz on Mar 24, 2017 6:29:34 GMT
It makes total sense honestly. Ravens of War denies AD because before the battle Striders harass and outwit the enemy army placing them at a disadvantage. This Khador theme has a similar thing going on except it uses Kossites and Kayazy to do the same thing. It makes sense from a fluff perspective and I don't see it as treading on Legion's toes in any way for them to get a similar benefit. I would agree with this if, like ravens of war, they were forced to take only those specific units and the theme benefit based on those units. Instead, khador just got a battlegroup-heavy theme list that gets anti-AD basically for free. There's nothing thematic about getting a powerful bonus from the implied inclusion of models that you don't actually have to include. If the theme really is khador's scouts/vanguard pulling harassment, then they should have to include said scouts/vanguard.
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Whiskie
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Post by Whiskie on Mar 24, 2017 7:53:39 GMT
You don't have to include any scouts or vanguard units in Ravens of War either. JVM proved it recently by playing Fyanna with a pile of Warbeasts and basically nothing else.
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