Another Bat rep from the CID! enjoy! but beware its long one fellas
Hello everyone have a interesting bat rep to share today testing the New Recon (one with outside flags) along with the War wagon, Fulcrum, and Scatter Terrain! We both used the Fuel Cache objective
*Disclaimer: This has a long commentary and analysis so grab some snacks and a beverage and remember to stretch your legs every so often
*
Our Lists Were:
Mohsar: Bones of Orboros
Woldwrath
Woldwarden
2 Woldwyrds
Celestial Fulcrum
2 Sentry Stones
Gallows Grove
2 Blackclad Wayfarers (Free)
1 Blackclad Stoneshaper (Free)
Horgle 2: No theme
Bomber
Mauler
Axer
runebearer
War Wagon
Max Highwaymen
Sluggers
Min stone with UA
Chronicler
Gobber chef
Ok so we used scatter method for terrain and picked out terrain pieces randomly. In the end the board looked like this:
He won the roll off and chose to go first I chose the side with the round obstruction as I liked the way the forest was positioned from this angle so I could take most advantage with my manikins.
Deployment:
War wagon goes out on flank and we pretty much square off. I plan to plop both my huge bases just barely toeing the zones and use the forest and my sentry stones plus warden to create a forest wall that he can’t see mohsar or my wyrds through.
TURN 1 *FIGHT!*
Trolls
Mostly just positioning. War wagon drifts a pounder AOE to kill some manikins. Sluggers hide in a trench so my WW can just get a lucky deviation and murder them. Firestarter goes on the bomber and rest is dropped into stone. Chronicler puts up tale of mists on the highwaymen and the highwaymen prepare to try and take advantage of the cover from terrain by turn 2.
Circle:
I mostly am trying to prepare for turn 2. I create a forest wall and the woldwrath Lobs an AOE to try and deter sluggers from moving into the zone. Mohsar puts Mirage on the Fulcrum and puts dwon 3 pillars camping 1 thanks to maltreating the woldwrath.
Turn 2: *battle music intensifies*
Trolls:
Horgle Puts Inviolable resolve on the War Wagon who then lobs an pounder shot at the warden and...misses needing 7’s Bomber kills some manikins and lights the blue stone on fire chipping a couple damage off it. Highwaymen spread out and prepare themselves for shooting with the chronicler buff. The gobber chef is actually not there he was moved back a bit after the pic was taken to be a better provider of comfort food for the bomber. Sluggers unload on some pillars and remove them all action movie style “FIRE FROM THE HIP LADS!” *plays heavy rock music*
Cicle:
Guns Turn! I mirage up the fulcrum who fills up on fury from the Wrath. Fire does nothing to the blue stone. Woldwyrds, and Wrath all pump shots into the War wagon spiking damage pretty well and taking it down to about 22 boxes. (arm 23 is pretty awesome) Manikins spray some dudes and between them and the fulcrum (and some heroic tough checks) I kill about 4 highwaymen. (fulcrum did miss a highwaymen with the lightning shot *highwaymen are ninjas*) Mohsar feats and I hide like a pansy behind my wall of forests. Blackclad is way up there on the left to be annoying and possibly proc hunter's mark/threat the sluggers
Turn 3: *The hugs bases stare eachother down a voice echoes in the wind…”let them fight”?
Cicle: 0 Trolls 1 (Im not in the zone *sigh*)
Trolls:
*rubs hands together* oh boy here we go some actual action! Horgle upkeeps Inviolable resolve. Axer threshers and kills one pillar (whifs the other and spikes the objective -__-) sluggers kill remaining pillars war wagon goes all in and we try two different things for the game state here:
1: War wagon takes a shot at mohsar to knock him dorn burn a transfer and open up a chance for the bomber to land some sweet firey AOEs on old man Moh. This fails due to dice and being rat 5 so for the sake of CiD we decide to play it out where the wagon commits fully to the warden taking it down to about boxes (from full health) Highwaymen and bomber work together to bring the Fulcrum down to about 12 boxes. Mauler positions to charge in and riggity wreck the Wrath after the War Wagon dies (this is actually a good play as the warden and wyrds on average dice should have trouble getting the wagon out of the way of the Wrath)
Circle:
I bet you are wondering, where did the mauler go? Well… some dice spikes from the warden (and only one wyrd) put it down. Mohsar then uses the gallows grove to put curse of shadows on the bomber And not only does my other wyrd almost kill the bomber, but the wrath kills the mauler (with a free charge from hunters mark) Fulcrum does not aim so that I can put more pressure on the zone (which ended up being irrelevant) takes some shots at the bomber leaving it on about 8 or so boxes and lobs a fire aoe at the highwaymen which deviates away and kills no one. The white blackclad (aka gandalf) and manikins spray some highwaymen but only kill one
Turn 4: *intense dramatic music plays everything goes into slow motion*
Circle:1 Trolls: 2
Trolls:
Wait a minute...where the woldwrath go? Oh yeah Horgle feats and between sluggers and the bomber they bring him down to 1 box. The axer finishes the job and puts the warden down to about 5 boxes. 2 highwaymen die to fire and the rest cra the fulcrum doing a few points of damage. Trolls score another point
Circle:
Ok so l upkeep mirage and curse. Fulcrum pulls fury from the wyrds. Warden heals up with theme and the stoneshaper and kills the axer. Woldwyrds try to shoot up horgle and fail epicly so the last shots go into the kriel stone. Mankins finish off the kreil stone. Both blackclads spray some dudes the one on top goes pretty ham and kills all but two sluggers knocking one down. Mohsar sits on 2 transfers and puts down 2 pillars. Fulcrum finishes of remaining highwaymen and the chronicler. I score 2 points
Turn 5: *sad bagpipes playing*
Circle: 3 Trolls: 3
Trolls:
Sluggers send one heroic son of a gun to try and get lucky and rolls some hot dice to kill Moh (i forgot to maltreat the warden and can’t transfer Doh) he sadly misses and with that trolls call it as it’s pretty obvious how it’s going to play out.
Circle Victory!
Terrain Set Up Review:
Red: Definitely need clarification on the orientation of the Deviation template for scatter deployment. I was placing mine with the direction of attack facing towards the middle of the table. Also, terrain can easily be placed in a corner of irrelevance if it scatters towards the table edges. I recommend not allowing terrain placed via scatter method to end within kill box OR 10” of a table edge after deviation to prevent irrelevant terrain placement
Yellow:Still concerned about LoS blocking terrain in the middle. It gave the troll player headaches dealing with that forest that I could basically ignore thanks to pathfinder and abused by keeping the sentry stones out of harm's way from shooting. The more I play with central LoS blocking terrain the more I see it causing serious balance issues between certain factions. The sad part is I feel like due to the nature of the scenarios that Central LoS blocking terrain is necessary to keep gun lines in check.
Green: Terrain felt impactful and diverse. Scatter method provided well spaced out terrain and other than the forest in the middle was not overbearing to one side in any way.
Objectives Review:
Red: nothing of Note
Yellow: Fuel cache was pretty irrelevant this game. My opponent did not use it on the war wagon (favoring its flanking board position over the fire aoe) Most of his BG was immune to fire or in the case of the sluggers hiding way back in a trench so there wasn’t much of a reason for me to light up the Woldwraths gun. HOWEVER, i do think it needs to be looked at. An AOE 5 with cont fire can cause real headaches for an opponent. I don’t think it is unbearable but it’s definitely fantastic against infantry. Also Even though the objectives were central they were very far back and I never found a desire or an opening to attempt to destroy it without sacrificing a large part of my attrition game. I think there needs to be more incentive for killing objectives. Mabey given them more boxes but increasing the score they give for destroying them to 2 points. This would give opponents a reason to target them over other models that are threatening in the opponent's army and open up more in depth tactical choices.
Green: Fuel cache may have been irrelevant this game but both armies really benefit from it and i feel like their position centrally allows armies to take advantage of the buffs they give more. I think moving them closer together would not change their impactfulness on the game outside of making them more relevant for scenario points
Scenario; Recon:
Scenario was pretty irrelevant all game. We just lobbed shots at each other and I just stayed as far back as I could not having any pressure to contest...ever. Had the scenario been more live I may have played more forward and the troll player wouldn't have been the one on his back foot. My army threatened him and the extra shooting without ever having to commit forward made for a very shallow game experience. We still had fun but that’s more so due to us being close personally and making jokes than because we felt challenged or had to make unique and decisive choices during the course of the game. Once again, I cannot stress this enough, the current scenario packet and the push towards attrition games has left me with a serious lack of tactical flexibility in my choices in game and in list design. Every army I build for SR2017 tends to be a gunline and every game I play goes almost the exact same. Walk forward position take some pot shots. Then around turn 3 or 4 things start dying and more often than not I win simply by being able to sit comfortably back and shoot (or in the case of when Im facing a gunline and drop baldur 2) I walk forward slowly weathering turn after turn of shooting making no meaningful gain other than blunt board position and start killing things by turn 4 or 5. I’m sorry guys but this is just a shadow of what it used to be. I am finding a distinct lack of tactical depth in my games that I had in SR2016 playing casters like Krueger and Mohsar. I really have been giving this scenario packet a chance I’ve played a good number of games now with it and I just...well honestly there a better games out there if I want to play straight attrition. Something needs to change and I’m trying to figure out what. I have spent a lot of time effort and money on this game. I’ve built memories and friendships from it I’m not trying to bash the devs or anything. I am just stating my observations and opinions hopefully you all will understand.
Yellow: Flags seemed incredibly irrelevant. I was hoping they would give me more of a reason to play scenario but it’s just better to obliterate your opponent and then worry about points.
Green: Based on Dev feedback though the attrition is the way to go and that makes me think it’s working as intended.
Battle Engines:
War Wagon:
Red: nothing
Yellow: It feels so close to good. It needs to stay the same boxes and arm as it is a serious tank which this game proved. Even spikes and with woldwyrds shooting it with an upkeep it just survived a lot of resources over 2 turns. Rat 5 really showed how much of an issue it is this game. Needing 7’s to hit a woldwarden is just too dicey (i know averages blah blah but dice are fickle and the gun relies too much on a direct hit to do work to be inconsistent) I recomend rat 6 to compensate. I also think it needs to hit slightly harder in melee. It did spike the damage on the warden and had it had an extra mount attack it could have killed it. I think giving it 2 mount attacks would help increase its offensive power a good amount. I also think that once it gets stuck in it just doesn't do much afterwards. There may need to be a rule that lets it be able to do work while engaged or allows to to still be relevant other than just a giant durable model after a charge.
Green: All of the knockdown effects and the speed and durability are just great. Seriously I can’t explain how awesome the durability is for this model.
Fulcrum:
Red: Nothin
Yellow: Nada
Green: I love it, Seriously you guys knocked this one out of the park, please don’t change anything it such a great and viable option now!
Recon ideas and suggestions:
I like the zones general orientation and I like the feel of the scenario. What I think needs to change is more mechanically with SR2017 than just recon.
1: Allow solos to control flags. I really think allowing solos to score on flags will increase their relevancy and provide for more tactically diverse choices that keep the scenario live and players engaged on the table. With this change i think the flags can stay where they are.
2: Objectives give more points when destroyed. I think making objectives give 2 points when destroyed will encourage players to try and work to destroy them and make them more of an option for target priority during the course of the game
3: Objectives moved closer together in Recon; the objectives are just slightly too far back to reasonably be able to commit the resources necessary to kill them. There is just not enough gain in game for the level of commitment required to destroy an Arm 18 15 box model. When it is better to just kill your opponents dudes in light of the battle at hand. Moving them closer makes them more vulnerable and also encourages targeting them as they require less resources to commit (ideally anyway)
Anyway those are my primary changes I’d recommend. I’m not perfect, I’m not a top tier tourney player, I win games and lose games, i make mistakes and my opinion is not the end all be all for game design. For goodness sakes I play mohsar almost religiously
But i really do think my experience with SR 2017 has given me at least some insight into some of the larger issues that are facing us in this tough transition.