gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 22, 2017 18:08:44 GMT
So they are talking about upcoming changes to Battle Engines, which I think by and large across the board see little play because they have little purpose compared to similar points options (exceptions like the Sacral Vault not withstanding).
Considering this, I think the most defining characteristic of any huge base sized model is... the huge base. It's big, it can't be moved, and most importantly it blocks LoS. But for their point cost, their durability just isn't good and they are easily removed often, especially the Throne. Why play it when you can play a Scythean or Proteus that has the same point cost and serves, apart from blocking LoS, largely the same purpose but with better survivability?
But what if the Throne got this new "30-38" boxes they were talking about it in the insider? Suddenly it would become sort of moving, LoS blocking terrain. Now as players we wouldn't have to worry about TO's making tables that actually let us make use of some of our special rules (in this case, Flight).
But assuming they do something to the throne other than simply giving it more boxes, what would do this? At the moment, I'm thinking of something to let it regenerate itself better. What if they get the "Beast" rule from the Siege Animantarax? With 30+ boxes and the ability to heal 3d3 a turn and its huge-based immunity to Grievous Wounds... It's a great way to keep your Flying beasts protected from shooting while they advance. Plus, just looking at it... it really should have the "beast" rule, as it's clearly not an "engine".
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Mar 22, 2017 18:15:44 GMT
Personally I'm hoping that the Throne comes with some sort of anti-gunline tech. Be it either a magic ability from the Sorceress perched on top or some kind of Protective Aura like ability. We really suffer against guns this edition and large scale changes to the Throne gives PP a chance to do something about this fairly crippling weakness that we've been suffering from since the start of the edition.
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Post by Korianneder on Mar 22, 2017 18:19:20 GMT
I think something that lets it generate corpse tokens for itself would be nice. Something like "Blight fed: During your maintenence phase this model gains d3 corpse tokens if it had none." That way it can still be useful if your opponent doesn't bring models for the corpses.
It'd also be nice if it had some aura that buffed models. "Banquet: Models in this models command range can spend corpse tokens on this model to boost magic attack and magic damage rolls."
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Mar 22, 2017 18:30:11 GMT
Personally I'm hoping that the Throne comes with some sort of anti-gunline tech. Be it either a magic ability from the Sorceress perched on top or some kind of Protective Aura like ability. We really suffer against guns this edition and large scale changes to the Throne gives PP a chance to do something about this fairly crippling weakness that we've been suffering from since the start of the edition. Well, the Cryx one does this for Undead. I'd be surprised if we got a direct (or near direct) copy. But yes, I see your point. I think it's large base size does something for that on its own, but it would be nice to have something a bit less finicky to use. Perhaps if it had Blood Mist on its tentacles, so that it could kill things to make clouds? I've always felt that Eyeless Sight was pretty damn hard to actually use effectively in this edition.
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rivers
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 57
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Post by rivers on Mar 22, 2017 18:40:19 GMT
I'd definitely like to see them try to do something with buffing auras or other similar things, but maybe for our beasts instead. We have the Blightbringer to buff infantry effectively with it's breaths (while I recognize that it does offer some other things that can improve beasts, it's primarily brought for the former reason). If they want to keep to the corpse mechanic I think a way to get them without having to kill things would be nice, similar to the Sacral vault. Impervious Flesh as its defensive tech would be nice since that's on the Hellmouth who is similarly tentacley, though self healing is much more viable since huge bases are immune to Grievous Wounds now (or was it just colossals/gargantuans?).
Seikishi's idea is kind of neat and thematic if they don't want to have something so durable buffing Legion warbeasts. Often times I'd want to bring a Throne with a magic focused list if I was going to justify it. It would be a big buff to Hex Hunters and the Sorceress, who might be finding a niche in Oracles of Annihilation but I'd love them to have more reasons to see play. Could be too strong with Vayl2 (free boosts during free spell feat could be a little much) though they could specify non-warlock in this kind of situation.
I'd be fine for it to take a hit in melee prowess and double down on spell sligning through a buff like that and better/more options under it's Magic Ability. The battle engines considered to be "good" in the past usually aren't focused on melee, and either have superb ranged presence or a mix of a decent gun and some kind of army support, since they'll never really be able to match a beast or jack in melee. A strong spell list would be a sufficient replacement for a gun and would keep/emphasize its synergy with the Bloodseer.
I'll expect disappointment for now though. I'd fully expect ours to be on the 30 end of the 30-38 which will still be quite fragile most of the time so it will need to be also be a very good anchor to justify a big "kill me" target like that. Obviously there's potential for a bad initial ruleset to get improved through the CID, but they've gone on record over there a lot saying "we dont want to add more rules to this model" for Grymkin stuff several times so it might be hard to work with it depending on how flexible PP wants to be.
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newsun
Junior Strategist
Posts: 140
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Post by newsun on Mar 22, 2017 19:26:31 GMT
Well it would make sense if it did some movement shenanigans since that is something we're known for as a faction. Ok agree with a lot of already posted comments.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 22, 2017 19:58:28 GMT
I don't believe, logic wise, it would just generate corpses. Nor do I see it changing mechanics to souls. So I don't think it will get any better in terms of self-sufficient resources. If the fulcrum wasn't getting an ability to siphon focus I would say it'd be a wonderful mechanic for us...
What I would like is definitely an aura bonus like the Wraith engine. Maybe something effecting souless models. Wind Ravager would be pretty epic, so that's unlikely. (not trying to be snarky) Maybe concealment, but then Blightbringer does that...
I would think, thematically, it would be good for spell denial but the sacral vault already does that and we can already take it. PP is not keen on having model step on other's toes.
Avalanche? Give it a spell that drops a template of rough terrain. let us leverage pathfinder and flying at our own will instead of just what's on the table.
#nodesignspace
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rivers
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 57
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Post by rivers on Mar 23, 2017 11:15:30 GMT
It would be kind of neat if they wanted to keep corpses, but give it some fury support, to let it leech fury and convert to corpses like a Forsaken, but from a fluff/theme standpoint who knows how you explain that, and then you might as well just let it just have the same rule as the Forsaken since it's functionally the same thing.
Either way it's a moot point and a shame that we probably won't see fury support on it, since we already know another battle engine probably will, yet we're still supposedly the "beast" faction with the most widespread/best fury support. Granted, Forsaken and a few shepherds are still a lot of fury removed a turn so it's not really a complaint so much as a sarcastic roll of the eyes at the #designspace meme.
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Post by ComboSmiteNick on Mar 23, 2017 12:08:10 GMT
I hope it gets some good stuff. I'm pretty sure the Fulcrum and the Wraith Engine (pretty much only with Denny3, but still) already saw more play than Throne and the changes they spoiled for those sound amazing. I would take either of those changes in a heartbeat but I don't really expect them to give duplicate abilities.
My wishlist: Fury Support/Use. Arm buff aura for beasts. Blast immune aura.
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Post by Cheesebeard on Mar 23, 2017 15:36:10 GMT
The corpse collection challenges really limit it from doing a lot of what it seems designed to do, so something that helps it accumulate whatever token it uses will be helpful. Being able to buy attacks would also be a strong improvement. Helping Legion against shooting, ARM/box spam, or with spell mitigation would provide a lot of faction value.
Thematically, I'd love if the tentacles ignored LoS. Tentacles reaching over the front lines, around buildings, etc., and grabbing bodies would be awesome and terrifying.
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Post by twentymiles on Mar 23, 2017 15:42:40 GMT
I really like the concept of the throne and I'm pretty excited at the idea of actually being able to put it on the table to do more than just look cool. Two things I'd really like to see happen to it:
1: Get the upgrade to ~40ish boxes that was mentioned. 2: Allow it to pick up corpses of friendly models killed within some distance.
ARM 20 with a ton of boxes is pretty resilient and allowing it to pick up the corpses of models around it would solve the biggest problem I usually have with it, which is that it usually doesn't get great use out of it's corpses because it dies the turn after it collects them.
Some wishlisty stuff that would reeally make me happy:
- Some sort of protective aura? Maybe something like give everything within 4'' Blade Shield. I like the idea of the throne using it's giant tentacles to knock projectiles out of the air as they head towards allies. We also have enough high def things in faction that would make the +2 bonus pretty scary. - Allow it to ignore tough somehow? Maybe something like consume would be fluffy, although consume would stop corpse collection so it couldn't be that rule exactly. - Allow it to buy attacks with corpses.
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Post by Jabberwokk on Mar 23, 2017 15:52:45 GMT
MOAR TENTACLES!
but srsly guis itz gunna be +1 to magic rolez.
No but seriously it's going to be magic. Either boosting or negation.
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newsun
Junior Strategist
Posts: 140
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Post by newsun on Mar 23, 2017 20:11:17 GMT
Target living model/unit gain souls, make target soulless.
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havik
Demo Gamer
Posts: 12
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Post by havik on Mar 23, 2017 22:33:21 GMT
I personally would like to see it get some hell mouth tech...give it some tentacles to go with its base attacks. Give it a maw attack with a range of 1" My evil thought is to give it impervious flesh other than that, if it could leach fury and use leached fury instead of corpses that would be nice too
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rivers
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 57
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Post by rivers on Mar 23, 2017 23:39:34 GMT
Giving it any pulls/drags like the Hellmouth would step on the Hellmouths, er, toes, as well as Proteus. I'd expect to see it keep Chain Strike at least since it has always had it and it makes sense. Since it's in the tentacle realm of everblight unyielding or impervious flesh could make sense thematically (if they want to use one of those as a template for success) as defensive tech. Barring a complete overhaul I think it's safe to expect it to look pretty similar, just more durable and gain some kind of thing that boosts its magical capabilities. But as I said, I'm going in overtly pessimistic.
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