havik
Demo Gamer
Posts: 12
|
Post by havik on Mar 8, 2017 4:29:42 GMT
Because it costs 4 fury where Breathstealer costs 2...Obviously the comparison in only really important because the speed debuff prevented charges in MK2...but for the most part I could prevent 2-3 important charges in the past where Blight bringer allows me to stop 1 (only more if people keep their models close.)
thats not to say it is a bad spell, its just a little too expensive. my biggest gripe with her is her feat and a lack of direction for her. you says shes an attrition caster, I say shes just bad specifically because she has no direction. Do you want to take beasts with her or troops, it really doesnt matter because she doesnt do anything for any of them (aside from the def nurf of breathstealer) outside of of her feat.
I think PP needs to look at her and decide, is she a beast caster or a troops caster, is she going to buff her models, debuff the enemy, or control the board. then they need to give her a feat that isnt useless for us.
As i said earlier I think MK2 saeryn is would be an S tier caster in this edition but would be countered by the more prevalent shooting lists. And as broken as Una2 was with the feat, it was the combination of abilities that made the una2 list broken. (stealth, long leash, flank, and cheap beasts ON TOP of the feat that prevented you from doing anything). Saeryn was never that broken and yet she was nurfed by the change in the feat, loss of some abilities, power creep, and the overall changes to the game.
her current design is lazy.
JMO
|
|
Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
|
Post by Whiskie on Mar 8, 2017 4:36:20 GMT
Not to completely derail the thread but Kallus1 is not in an awful state right now. I run him periodically at tournaments in my area which contains multiple high level players. He's sort of a silver bullet to a lot of the meta right now in that he gives Legion a way to fight jack spam lists in an attrition battle. I'd say he's worlds better than Saeryn1.
Kallus1 - Blightbringer
2x Max Swordsmen Max Grotesque Raiders 2x Hellmouths
2x Deathstalkers Grotesque Assassin Spell Marytr
A lot of people simply clock trying to work their way through all the infantry especially when you jam them with it really hard and threaten to win on scenario by camping a defensive flag/zone slowly ticking up in CP's.
|
|
havik
Demo Gamer
Posts: 12
|
Post by havik on Mar 8, 2017 11:09:37 GMT
That looks a lot like Brian Marinos list although I cant remember if he had 2 units of raiders and 1 swordsmen...regardless, I liked the list but I havent bought anything game related aside from paint since mk3 was announced...(more a matter of a baby than anything else)
|
|
|
Post by Korianneder on Mar 8, 2017 13:38:18 GMT
I never played her in Mk2, so I can only look at what she does in Mk3 and base my opinions on that, not on the previous form. The only thing she does for her battlegroup is give them retalitory strike on the feat and give one of them respawn. I'd be looking to take infantry with her more. A unit of legionnaires upfront go up to armor 23 under her feat so they make a pretty good jam. You can also use them to put those blight bringers where you need to. Swordsmen could be a good second line infantry to help clean up after the legionnaires go down.
I think with two units of infantry like that I'd probably bring a blightbringer with her and fill in the rest of the points with warlords/support/maybe another heavy. Thags1 might run a list like this better, but he has to brick up more for the armor bonus. Saeryn lets her forces spread out as long as they remain in her control area for the feat.
|
|
Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Lanz on Mar 8, 2017 17:02:23 GMT
I think PP needs to look at her and decide, is she a beast caster or a troops caster, is she going to buff her models, debuff the enemy, or control the board. then they need to give her a feat that isnt useless for us. As i said earlier I think MK2 saeryn is would be an S tier caster in this edition but would be countered by the more prevalent shooting lists. And as broken as Una2 was with the feat, it was the combination of abilities that made the una2 list broken. (stealth, long leash, flank, and cheap beasts ON TOP of the feat that prevented you from doing anything). Saeryn was never that broken and yet she was nurfed by the change in the feat, loss of some abilities, power creep, and the overall changes to the game. her current design is lazy. JMO I'll have more to say about saeryn later but I want to say something about this specifically. This isn't the PP forums. There are no devs here to listen to what we're saying. I know it's tempting to slip into old habits of criticizing game balance, but that kind of discussion has no value anymore. At least not any value here. We can't get anywhere talking about what PP can do about models, we can only productively talk about what WE can do about them as they are.
|
|
|
Post by Garryth on Mar 8, 2017 18:05:25 GMT
Not to completely derail the thread but Kallus1 is not in an awful state right now. I run him periodically at tournaments in my area which contains multiple high level players. He's sort of a silver bullet to a lot of the meta right now in that he gives Legion a way to fight jack spam lists in an attrition battle. I'd say he's worlds better than Saeryn1. Kallus1 - Blightbringer 2x Max Swordsmen Max Grotesque Raiders 2x Hellmouths 2x Deathstalkers Grotesque Assassin Spell Marytr A lot of people simply clock trying to work their way through all the infantry especially when you jam them with it really hard and threaten to win on scenario by camping a defensive flag/zone slowly ticking up in CP's. I played Kallus1 at the WTC. I admit you can somewhat dictate your matchups there but I did go undefeated in them. I still have him as one of my main at most tourneys. Most lists can't handle the jam + feat. The arm 22 hellmouths are pretty fun too. Just don't play him into heavy gunlists, cygnar and eKreuger and he'll have a game in most match-ups.
|
|
|
Post by Danx on Mar 9, 2017 1:01:08 GMT
Saeyns blightbringer spell is worse than abby1. They both love shadow bind. Take a Naga.
Retaliatory strike is better than I thought. It's like an extra focus on all jacks.ł
|
|
|
Post by neutralyze on Mar 9, 2017 17:21:24 GMT
Again, she has Blight Bringer. I'm not sure how that spell can be overlooked. It's tremendously powerful. Again, she has Blight Bringer. I'm not sure how that spell can be overlooked. It's tremendously powerful. It costs over half of saeryns fury and can be played around. Anything that grants free charges can allow models to move out of it. If you center it on your own guys you need to make sure their models don't have reach. What would be ideal is that saeryns breath stealer gets changed to prevent charges and she gets blight burst instead of blight bringer
|
|
|
Post by Jabberwokk on Mar 9, 2017 18:05:29 GMT
Again, she has Blight Bringer. I'm not sure how that spell can be overlooked. It's tremendously powerful. Again, she has Blight Bringer. I'm not sure how that spell can be overlooked. It's tremendously powerful. It costs over half of saeryns fury and can be played around. Anything that grants free charges can allow models to move out of it. If you center it on your own guys you need to make sure their models don't have reach. What would be ideal is that saeryns breath stealer gets changed to prevent charges and she gets blight burst instead of blight bringer ALL HAIL THE LEGION HERO! Good to see ya! ok carry on.
|
|
Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Lanz on Mar 9, 2017 19:05:07 GMT
Again, she has Blight Bringer. I'm not sure how that spell can be overlooked. It's tremendously powerful. Again, she has Blight Bringer. I'm not sure how that spell can be overlooked. It's tremendously powerful. It costs over half of saeryns fury and can be played around. Anything that grants free charges can allow models to move out of it. If you center it on your own guys you need to make sure their models don't have reach. What would be ideal is that saeryns breath stealer gets changed to prevent charges and she gets blight burst instead of blight bringer My thoughts were more on the line of using it as a barrier in front of models, not directly centered on them. Maybe run a hellmouth tentacle into position just in front of a warbeast and pop that with blight bringer.
|
|
|
Post by Korianneder on Mar 9, 2017 19:08:04 GMT
It costs over half of saeryns fury and can be played around. Anything that grants free charges can allow models to move out of it. If you center it on your own guys you need to make sure their models don't have reach. What would be ideal is that saeryns breath stealer gets changed to prevent charges and she gets blight burst instead of blight bringer My thoughts were more on the line of using it as a barrier in front of models, not directly centered on them. Maybe run a hellmouth tentacle into position just in front of a warbeast and pop that with blight bringer. That's was my thought too. It's easy to get it in tge perfect position with disposable models. Even legion beasts survive against another heavy if the heavy can't buy attacks.
|
|
|
Post by JJDM on Mar 9, 2017 19:12:48 GMT
This isn't terrible tech, preventing models from buying attacks or boosting seems really good on paper, but there's a couple issues that make it more hassle than it's worth on the table. You can't target tentacles if they are out of formation. This is new in Mk3, so you are limited in where you place your beasts because the tentacle has to be able to run in front as well as remain 8" from the maw. The other thing is that even if they can't buy attacks, warjacks wreck legion beasts. Charging in, doing 2 MAT 7 initial attacks is almost enough to kill or seriously cripple whatever you put blightbringer in front of. There are lots of buffs out there that are applied before something is sent in, and there are lots of blanket effects like S&P as well.
It's pretty good in theory, but it feels like it has a LOT of limitations and inefficiencies for what should be a really devastating spell since it costs 4 fury to cast.
|
|
Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Lanz on Mar 9, 2017 20:05:07 GMT
This isn't terrible tech, preventing models from buying attacks or boosting seems really good on paper, but there's a couple issues that make it more hassle than it's worth on the table. You can't target tentacles if they are out of formation. This is new in Mk3, so you are limited in where you place your beasts because the tentacle has to be able to run in front as well as remain 8" from the maw. The other thing is that even if they can't buy attacks, warjacks wreck legion beasts. Charging in, doing 2 MAT 7 initial attacks is almost enough to kill or seriously cripple whatever you put blightbringer in front of. There are lots of buffs out there that are applied before something is sent in, and there are lots of blanket effects like S&P as well. It's pretty good in theory, but it feels like it has a LOT of limitations and inefficiencies for what should be a really devastating spell since it costs 4 fury to cast. Not even a choir-buffed ignited Avatar does that much damage to a heavy in just 2 hits. Even at dice+3 (ps21 vs a carnivean chassis) that's about 23 damage on average and that's an extreme example. Nevermind if saeryn's feat is involved. The point isn't that the beasts would be invincible or anything, the point is improving the piece trade. That aside, why can't you target tentacles out of formation?
|
|
|
Post by JJDM on Mar 9, 2017 20:15:02 GMT
Prime Pg 64
Out of Formation While out of formation, a trooper cannot advance outside of its Normal Movement, make special actions, or make attacks, including attacks that do not take place during the model’s or unit’s activation, such as a free strike. Friendly models cannot target out-of-formation troopers with spells or special rules.
|
|
Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Lanz on Mar 10, 2017 0:24:22 GMT
Prime Pg 64 Out of Formation While out of formation, a trooper cannot advance outside of its Normal Movement, make special actions, or make attacks, including attacks that do not take place during the model’s or unit’s activation, such as a free strike. Friendly models cannot target out-of-formation troopers with spells or special rules. Annoying. Hm. Might be a good reason to consider her in theme then and maybe use disposable solos for the same role.
|
|