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Post by Ajax on Mar 22, 2017 0:28:54 GMT
... how have people been finding them so far? 9 points seems like a lot of points for such a squishy unit, but they've got some utility overlap in my mercs.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 22, 2017 4:29:49 GMT
Such small sized but costed around 7 to 9 needs some utility, gives good tactical advantage or useless.... And I don't think that they offer either of them. The only 'utility' part seems Thunderbolt, but I doubt that it is useful that much because it is so easily blocked.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 22, 2017 16:29:31 GMT
So far they have behaved to expectations, a pretty killy shoot you 3 man 9 point unit. I wish they were 8 points myself but meh.
They take casualties really poorly in that whatever connects, kills due to tissue armor and 1 wound. Also bc each model has multiple attacks, they absorb casualties poorly in that each one lessens attack output potential by up to 33%.
Those are big negatives, but, they are offset by their nice offensive output and the nice side benefits. I like them in lists carrying Gibbs the most due to reposition. I tend to shy away w/of Gibbs.
All in all I like them a lot, don't love em but definitely like them.
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Post by Aegis on Mar 22, 2017 16:40:56 GMT
I think they have potential.
Old B13 already died like flies if something connected in MK2, but we still auto-included them in every list, so that drawback isn't as big as it looks at first sight.
I could totally see them being played, expecially in lists that include Gibbs for other reasons, the problem is that they aren't in any theme force and likely never be.
That means that they do not cost 9 points, but 19-26 points.
Everything that doesn't fit in themes at the moment is in a pretty bad spot sadly.
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Post by Ajax on Mar 22, 2017 18:09:24 GMT
That means that they do not cost 9 points, but 19-26 points. Everything that doesn't fit in themes at the moment is in a pretty bad spot sadly. Yeah, seems to be just about where all of the factions are having to make decisions now, unfortunately. My understanding is that PP is trying to balance the game around themes...how that will work out in practice has yet to be seen.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 22, 2017 21:13:30 GMT
I think PP missed a trick in not letting them be taken as friendly faction models in Sons of the Tempest
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 22, 2017 21:59:42 GMT
There's lots they missed with that theme. No squire...
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 23, 2017 15:27:59 GMT
I think they have potential. Old B13 already died like flies if something connected in MK2, but we still auto-included them in every list, so that drawback isn't as big as it looks at first sight. I could totally see them being played, expecially in lists that include Gibbs for other reasons, the problem is that they aren't in any theme force and likely never be. That means that they do not cost 9 points, but 19-26 points. Everything that doesn't fit in themes at the moment is in a pretty bad spot sadly. Another reason I hate themes giving free points. Reduces list diversity by giving huge point bonuses to play inside a narrow sandbox. It's exactly the opposite of what themes are supposed to do, which is increase list diversity, model diversity, and new ways to play models. Oh hey id like to use these neat models... oh wait, I lose out on 19 plus points in my list if I do that, on top of paying for the models I want to use.... so screw it i guess, not worth it. I think this will end up being the mk3 theme legacy. Which is ironic as they stated free models, per model discounts were a mistake. But they are doing just that by a slightly different vector.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 23, 2017 15:50:14 GMT
Wait. Wait up. Just had an idea. What if Steamroller 2017 limits lists so that only 1 of the 2 can be a theme list? They should totally do that.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 23, 2017 16:05:07 GMT
Wait. Wait up. Just had an idea. What if Steamroller 2017 limits lists so that only 1 of the 2 can be a theme list? They should totally do that. It is not an option, and it must not without a doubt. Else there is no reason to allow two or more lists in the league rules - to prevent one sided game just because of the bad matchup. It is not the point of the problem as well.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 23, 2017 18:00:39 GMT
While I like the spirit of the idea phoenix ultimately I agree with storm puppy.
They can't do it bc it would just open up theme chicken as a sub echelon of list chicken.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Mar 25, 2017 10:31:06 GMT
I dunno, as they are mercs they seem wasted points (no buffing) or no theme bonus (so more costly).
As a stand alone unit, they are really good. 9 points, very good shots, some utility, but I think we don't need to spend points on them 90% of the time.
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