Thagrosh2: A primer on The Messiah Mar 21, 2017 4:23:12 GMT Whiskie, copperflame, and 4 more like this
Post by Lanz on Mar 21, 2017 4:23:12 GMT
**Thagrosh2 was recently overhauled in CID. New stuff is in bold, old stuff that no longer applies has been crossed out**
I’m making this because I’ve played Thagrosh2 since the start of mk2. He’s been my most played caster of every faction I currently own since then, and almost always makes it into my tournament pairings. I generally share a lot of insight on Thagrosh2 anyways, and I do some unusual things with him these days that I’ve been loosely explaining all over the place that will be included in this. I suppose writing a Thagrosh2 tactica is long overdo, given how much time I spend on him, so I’m going to try and cram hundreds of games of insight into this. This isn’t any kind of definitive ‘way’ Thagrosh2 is or should be played. It’s just what I personally have learned, practiced, and succeeded with.
Flight: This is actually important. Yeah, he’s
Athanc: The basic footnote to keep in mind with this is that you basically never need to rile your beasts and you never need to cut for fury. Thagrosh2 will always have all the fury he needs, regardless of how much or little you have on the table. So if you’re running something like a Sorceress + flyers, absolutely feel free to go minimalist on the fury generation. It also can help in certain specific circumstances, like Mohsar’s feat, since the Fury you get from the athanc is gained, not leeched, so anti-leeching tech won’t prevent it. Likewise it also means that anti-leeching tech won’t stop you from getting your fury each turn.
Blood Spawn: A nifty rule, really. It actually is one of the few cases where the new lessers are actually better for Thagrosh2. Or, at least, the harrier is anyways. Thagrosh2’s base defense is not amazing, but if something jumps you, popping out a harrier for Annoyance can make him effectively DEF14 unless they’re willing to redirect attacks onto the hapless harrier instead (which is still good for you because those are wasted attacks). Since it’s potentially popping in mid-activation, it can really screw things up for your opponent sometimes. Yes, I’ve actually had a harrier save me. That really happened. If nothing else, it’s an extra 13 boxes of transfer target that isn’t the warbeasts you actually paid for. Also, keep in mind that the 5-damage requirement has been lifted in mk3, so a single-damage plink from a widowmaker can give you a lesser if you so choose.
*NEW*Sac Pawn[Lesser]: Makes the above rule especially-nifty. In my experience so far, you don't NEED to actually bring lessers to justify this rule. Just the one he can spawn is already awesome with this, and while you can experiment with lessers all you like, I find they're still not efficient enough to go overboard on. Maybe a pair of harriers at most for me, and with smart placement that's already a huge boost to his survival.
And yeah, he has tough. Lol. (No, tough has had no impact on any of my games so far (still))
Thagrosh has 3 main spells that you’ll probably use every single game, and
- Dragon’s Blood: A basic model/unit armor buff. The secondary effect is a bit more useless than mk2 in my opinion, but it’s still there.
The biggest drawback is Thagrosh2 can’t use it on himself(He freaking can now!), but it’s great for tanking up your favorite warbeast, or a hellmouth, or something. I used to take Legionnaires in mk2 and give it to them, and if they become cost-effective again, that would still be a legitimate use. I put it on a throne a lot.
- Manifest Destiny: This is one of your main reasons for playing thagrosh2. If it wasn’t, it will be. So, something to keep in mind here is that Legion warbeasts, on the whole, can be pretty attack-heavy. It’s not unusual to get 6-7 attacks out of a warbeast, or as many as 8 in the case of something like Typhon. Because of this the benefits of attack/damage buffs are sort of multiplicative, so even though MD isn’t a HUGE buff on a per-attack basis, it pans out across 6+ attacks to be pretty devastating by the time your activation is over. Generally any legion beast in the PS16+ attack range will have pretty good odds of one-rounding other heavies under MD, and the meatier stuff like a Carnivean or Typhon can potentially overkill a heavy with enough fury left to still pop their animi. On average you can expect about 1.5-2 more damage average per attack, so across 7 attacks that’s an extra 6-12 or so damage. It really depends on dice, but it generally will save you from awful rolls, and make good rolls amazing.
- Scourge: This is a clutch assassination tool for Thagrosh2. You’ll always want spell martyrs in your list because of Scourge, and there’s a whole volume of assassination options that start with it. In fact, there’s so much going on here, that it gets its own section further down.
Flesh Eater: I actually cast this once last game I played. I think it was the first time I’ve ever cast it in like 5 years. Sometimes you need a source of magical damage, and here it is, but between Manifest Destiny, healing, camping, and being able to just boost his spray, it’s very rare that you’ll have the fury to cast it even if you’re inclined to. Unnatural Aggression: This is a very unfortunate spell. In mk2 it was weird, but I made use of it. Now it’s sorta useless. In mk3, I find every time I cast it, it’s just a waste of upkeep fury on a caster who already has plenty to spend fury on. Unless you’re going against a gunline and you know that UA will will only give you extra threat range to close quicker, it’s almost always a waste of fury, or a risk that will feed your warbeast to your opponent. It’s worth noting that it can be put on any target, not just a warbeast, but since it has to get shot, take damage, and survive, the number of targets that it’s useful for are very slim. Theoretically you could do some weird combo with this and the Sorceress’ Wind Ravager to ram anti-shooting down your opponent’s throat in the middle of their own turn, but it’s woefully-predictable and very corner-case.
- Aggravator: Not an amazing spell, not an awful spell. If you're getting free upkeeps from a succubus, or free casts from Oracles (or both), it's probably worth having up early game, since it's your call when and where you want to trigger it. The important thing to keep in mind with hyper-aggressive is that you can just move half an inch if you want. You don't have to go blasting off into your opponent's lines every time they shoot you. Where Aggravator has an advantage is that it's wide-spread, so your opponent can't just cherry pick the model to ignore or exploit. ANY shooting they use will potentially generate movement from your army, and they have to take that into account just as you have to take into account where it's safe to squeeze in a few extra inches of movement with it. Make no mistake; Hyper-aggressive IS a trap when used poorly, and it does come down to who is the smarter player. I recommend using it just to edge a small distance closer, while keeping in mind enemy threat ranges. If both players are canny, your best case scenario is using the movement to get to the point that you're just toeing out of their threat range.