Explain me the Bane UA hate

Oops I thought I posted that in the Cryx forum, but didn't apparently. Would a mod be kind enough to move this thread in the Cryx subforum ?

Thanks !

A few points:



- First off, as you've already alluded to, Tough is vastly worse on an officer than on the standard bearer. As soon as that officer dies, goodbye Tough.



- The next point is that the Officer & Standard are insanely expensive. 6 points for just 2 models is a hell of a lot - especially given that the officer is easily sniped and once he's gone the standard bearer's ability is all but worthless.

- The ability to make more banes is situational at best. You need the enemy to be using a lot of infantry (which is relatively rare, given that warjacks have become much better and you're required to field more of them). You need banes to be the optimal unit for taking out said infantry (which is very unlikely, given that they're geared to take out high-armour units like warjacks/warbeasts). You need a decent number to actually survive and reach combat, and then for all those attacks to connect.

- Finally, the problem is that banes in general got vastly less useful - losing Stealth, Tough (on the standard bearer) and support like the extra movement from Curse. This is nowhere near enough to get them back on track. 


No. Again, Tough on the officer instead of the standard bearer makes a huge difference in terms of survivability - as the officer can easily be sniped out, removing Tough from the squad.

There's also the aforementioned cost issue - in that the Officer/Standard have gone up in price considerably, making them a much worse investment overall (especially given the nerfs).

Then there's the matter of whether you'd want banes at all. When you look at the cost of a full unit plus UA (and maybe Tata too), you're looking at a lot of points for a pretty mediocre and fragile unit.

With regard to your first point, the issue is that they aren't even close to being worth what they were in Mk2. So them costing an equivalent number of points means that their cost is excessive for what you actually get. 

Also, something we haven't touched on yet is that morale was removed from Mk2 - eliminating one of the main advantages undead had over normal units (which, again, wasn't reflected in their cost). 

In terms of the Standard's ability being useless, I was referring to 'Dead Rise', not the bonus to CMD. Although saying that, I'll just point out that I'd never take a standard bearer if all it did was give a bonus to CMD. 

Though, unlike almost every other unit with a standard on the ua, the banes standard has a pow13 WM weapon (instead of no weapon)

So I despise the Bane Warrior CA, I think it's a waste of points. Yes the Mark2 UA was good, but the Mark3 CA we have now is worse.

1) The unit lost Stealth. This is still huge, especially concerning the more expensive CA's survivability. It's a lot easier to snipe out the 12/15 5 box officer when you don't need special guns to do so.

2) Tough is now on the Officer & not the Standard. Keeping the Standard alive is easy thanks to take up. Keeping the Officer alive is not. He's now an even higher priority target than he was in Mark2 because he's easily worth 5/6 of the points you're playing for the CA. If he dies you're losing an extra attack since he's the only one with 2 axes, the mini feat, & Tough.

3) Dead Rise is now Rise. Mark2 Banes didn't just shake Knockdown, they also shook Stationary. This was huge in matchups like Sorscha1, Goreshade3, or Legion using the Blackfrost Shard where they were unable to just Stationary your front most unit to completely screw your movement over. Now in these matchups if you have a Bane unit up front Sorscha can Freezing Grip the unit and your second line is now trapped behind a Stationary unit of Banes that can't get out of the way.

4) The Mini Feat is a trap. It only works against living warriors. This is a mini feat that better suits Bane Knights. The Warriors are heavy hunters. They excel at killing heavy targets. If you're taking advantage of the mini feat you're using the Banes for a purpose they aren't really suited for.

5) Cost. For 6 points you get a host of mediocre-good abilities tied to one 5 point models and an extra 1 point Bane. 6 points gets you 3 attacks. For just 4 more points you can double the amount of attack you get by just taking another min unit of Bane Warriors instead of the CA, and you won't have two of your attacks tied to one easy to snipe model.