How to run lists without the Krielstone

I wish i had something to share with you, but so far, basically every list that is good that i have seen includes the stone. You can build a list without the stone, but it will most likely either be a poor list, or become better by adding the stone. Playing without the stone feels a bit like forcing a square peg in to a round hole. If you use enough force it may work, but it is certainly not better than putting the round peg in there...

The stone benefits models with high ARM and lots of wounds. Single wound infantry benefit the least. Then comes multi wound infantry, then beasts who benefit the most. It also happens that beasts are generally a stronger option for us than single wound infantry, so that is a big factor. In fact, every list must include at least ~2 heavies worth of beasts who by themselves, together with the caster are enough to warrant at least a min stone. Madrak 2 currently tends to play 4 heavies and as much infantry as he can fit. He still brings a min stone to protect himself, his beasts, and because he can use grim salvation on the stone, who can then self sacrifice to the other guys in the unit. Every other list will probably have MORE reason to take the stone than Madrak 2 does.

There are a few examples of lists that do not use the stone. Obviously Madrak 3 can leave it at home since he functionally carries his own stone. most lists with him will not have a stone and be playable. I am currently playing a version with 2 heavies and 2 kings and 16 free points in PoD. It works just fine.

Calandra is the other potential candidate since she can increase survivability by stacking DEF rather than ARM. There is a list floating around the net with a sea king, multiple EBDTs (to benefit from the added def by being near the water spawned by the sea king animus) a mauler (for rage) and 16 free points. Rumor has it that this list is playable. Back in MK2, calandra would often play without the stone. you didnt need to bring a lot of beasts, and she supported minion infantry well. Now nothing supports minion infantry, and she has reverted to playing stuff that generally benefit from having the stone.

The stone is boring and expensive, but it is a core part of the faction, just like choir is a core part of protectorate. it is probably better to get used to it first, and try to discover the exceptions to the rule of "always play the stone" later rather than trying to revolutionize the faction as a new player

I think it was a bit more doable to get away with not using it in MKII when you could play Croak Raider gunlines with Grim2/Gunny and you had so many non-faction models that the Krielstone wasn't necessarily worth it. Maybe that time will come again. That said, for now Trolls like running large battlegroups and if you're running a decent amount of beasts a Krielstone is a must have.

I may be an outlier here, but I played most of Mk1 and Mk2 without the stone.

Don't get me wrong, the stone is great, but it does come with some downsides:

1. You have to spend focus to get it fully powered up. A full stone unit is 7 models and some of our casters are only 5 focus. Those early turns when you want to be getting upkeeps out, powering the stone and not dying to assassination are a big deal. Sometimes you don't have the Fury to do all the things.

2. You can spread out! Without the stone, you can have models further from the brick and head for the flanks, or make better use of terrain. Of course, you can do this without the stone, but then why are you taking it, if you're not going to get maximum benefit?

3. Spend the points on something else. Currently, a full unit is 12 point. You could get 10 Kriels, min Tuffaloes, SoBs, another light beast or some solos for those points. Use those points as a flanking unit, jammer, objective grabber, etc. Maybe this is my lack of experience with Trollbloods in Mk3 in that I keep hearing that our units are lacklustre. Try new new things.

Ultimately, you don't *need* the stone. It's very useful, and I would say that the Stone Scribe's warping is of more use than the +2 armour. It's going to depend on who you're facing on a regular basis. If you're going to tourneys you can put it into ADR and swap it in when you're facing continuous effects or incorporeal, etc.

Play what you like. You'll get good with it and be happier.

for me the answer is any time I have the stone unless I REALLY REALLY need the 3 points for something else

It all depends on what my list is trying to do to facilitate the need for the UA. For most list I spend 9-12 on the min/max+UA but in some of my more melee centric builds I've been finding that only getting +1 STR on maybe 2-3 useful models isn't necessary.

Totally agree. Getting ~5 less damage against a jack, but more importantly, against a beast (who will work at 100% capacity unless you completely kill it) can be very significant.