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Post by Meandthc on Mar 6, 2017 21:38:31 GMT
Default Re: For the love of Warmachine why are you doing this to us!
Ty,
I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate you taking the time to write the following text out, and while it isn't appropriate for the new players forums, I will be sending this feedback along through the proper channels.
Please pp i don't understand the direction you are going. i would like to discuss a few recent things that bother me, I hope to create a positive dialogue but realize that any dialogue is better than nothing.
1. The faction forums.
Though i understand the online community has never been pleasant i feel a huge amount of positive discussion has occurred and continued to do so up until the point they were removed. They are the reason i come to your site, you could already feel how quiet they have become since mkIII. You might just kill them now. When a company makes bad choices that affect the quality of the product and its value to the customer, many customers get angry. That is their right as a customer of your product. If you don't take steps to improve said product people aren't going to buy it anymore, why would they.
2. We play and pay for Warmachine.
Guys love books right? and IKRPG? and pins? how about $35 books with almost no new models and theme forces i can get online? No i love to play Warmachine. i love having a balanced fun game that lets me choose whatever faction i want and play against my friends competitively. Wait... i loved doing those things now i feel the game state is a mess. Fix your game and stop focusing on all the extras, please.
3. MKIII
i cant believe this came out. The box spam you said was negative in MKII became jack box spam. Bad Rules on models, we don't play with 80% of the toys you make. THE NERFS! good for the game bad for all the people you let buy MadDogs, Una Griffon Boat, or elemental evolution i still have 2 units of warders from mkII! How short do you feel peoples memories are? Do you notice a lack of purchasing recently? if so its because we are all terrified you will take our fun things away (things we spend real money on). Try improving things that haven't been used in years. You say you had to fix it it was breaking the meta. Why are you constantly releasing things that break the meta then fix them AFTER you sell millions of the broken models?
4. New Faction
Love it! 2 heavies (one looks like support)? what are you going to kill all the colossals and jacks with? I mean you create a jack/beast meta and then release an infantry faction. Are you going to take away all my anti-infantry tech to fix them?
5. I LOVE THIS GAME
when i see people make mistakes i feel bad. when i see a train wreck about to happen i try to help. Please look at what you're doing and where you want these changes to take you.
Most likely my first/last post but had to give you my 2 cents. Thanks for all the years of fun.
Ty "
They deleted this within 5 mins.
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 6, 2017 21:44:24 GMT
I mean, it's not being constructive. It's literally saying fix your shit. Grant you deleting it is way too far, but still.
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Levyathan
Light Addition
"I am Everywhere."
Posts: 67
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Post by Levyathan on Mar 6, 2017 21:44:56 GMT
Yep, sounds about right. >_>
TBH I think they are having some Grymkin related insanity from their ARG thats just carried over. Though its more likely they are tired of our **** and decided to kick us to a curb and hope we become as over invested as some sections of GW's fanbase.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 6, 2017 22:15:05 GMT
PP has actually been deleting a few threads like this throughout the morning. I've been watching new threads pop up and vanish all over the place.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 6, 2017 23:24:04 GMT
I'm not sure we're breaking the rules when the mods charged with enforcing said rules are literally saying "go somewhere else to talk about warmachine." And locking the threads that attempt to do just that.
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Post by Malnorma on Mar 6, 2017 23:43:34 GMT
I left the forums a few weeks ago because of the brutal moderation and heavy push towards "social media" (put simply: we think your interests should be tracked and do our advertising for us). I took a look at the new forums today to see if things had improved, but nope, they're FAR WORSE.
I think someone at PPHQ is sitting on the self destruct button without realising it.
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Post by meandthc on Mar 7, 2017 0:09:22 GMT
i can see what you mean, maybe a bit harsh in some regards but i don't feel its wrong. It's not a forum if people can't discus ideas, i don't want to have to sign up to their crappy rules just to learn about the new things that are coming to the game. I Say this coming from someone who loves playing the game, but i'm stuck in a buying freeze and have yet to jump ship to another game and i don't want to.
I get its hard to make a game like this work but focus on the game not all the other shit and make that air tight then spin all your books, toys, and crap. Completely neglecting factions or destroying the value in people collections is not going to get us to buy more of the new hotness. It works quite the opposite in fact. get something new get burnt.. get something new get burnt... stop buying things. Hoping PP gets its shit together soon.
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Post by faehrmann on Mar 7, 2017 0:11:58 GMT
I guess they are using the freed workforce for the CID to keep it cost neutral. Neutral forums do not need to be a bad thing, but they have bungled the transition and its gonna hurt the community i guess.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 7, 2017 0:16:37 GMT
Well, they should have given us a few weeks to sort it out before closing the forums. It's fine to separate the passionate discussion topics from the official forums, and there are numerous good reasons for that (for us and for them), but the way they handled it was just spiteful and destructive.
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Post by sideshowlucifer on Mar 7, 2017 4:36:50 GMT
It was pretty badly handled on their part for sure. I don't know what they hope to gain unless a lot of the newer stuff is geared more for new players and they will try the GW approach of getting younger players in the game at the expense of the vets. I'm really expecting SR17 to be less focused on the hardcore balanced tourney play and instead focus on the fun and weird stuff. That isn't really bad, but any time you alienate your current player-base, it never turns out well. Even the grymkin look like a huge shift into a new demographic. On the CID forums they even tell you what can not change and what models need to be easy to play.
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kaos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 268
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Post by kaos on Mar 7, 2017 7:39:31 GMT
As I see hit, PP made some big mistakes recently. The forum was the last straw breaking the camel back for probably a portion of players. But I feel like they took some bad decisions rivalling with Tom Kirby era in GW. And everyone knows how bad Tom Kirby was as a CEO.
1)I'm not complaining about the mk3 rules. I've been a fan of them from day one. Playing khador probably plays a huge part on this but I understand why people are upset. Some people had half or more of the armies invalidated. It's OK to boost jacks but don't nerf infantry to ground. Some issues were created by the infantry heave nerfing. If you play the mad dog spam army into a old cryx army I don't know if the mad dogs will cut it. The balancing on the jacks was fine (power and point wise) but the infantry needed to remain the same.
2) the freeloader policy. Really? I understand you want to empower brick and mortar stores but hitting good stores like dgi wasn't nice at all. The decline of brick and mortar is caused mostly by pigheaded owners than outside supposedly unfair competition.
3) the invalidating erratas. Some stuff were overcorrected. Karchev could have retained the full feat of they were going to nerf the dogs. I mean that was tricky since nerf karchev and people would play mad dogs with Vlad, nerf mad dogs and people would spam something else with karchev. But yes it was too much. Problem is some stuff will be strong but people need to deal with it. Playing vs Karchev was not at the same level of playing vs Haley 2 were you are going to have a frustrating game no matter what. Also when nerfs are made you cannot made pieces utterly garbage. Things like una2 shouldn't have happened in the first time because of you take out the no melee feat from the mk2 casters due to negative player experience, why the hell you bring it back?
4) Princing. Yes I feel the pricing of PP stuff is becoming GW ridicolous. Actually if you made some calculations, PP models are even more expensive of GW without reaching the same level of quality. I would buy a GW mawkrusha any day instead of a PP colossal. They have roughly the same size, but the colossals kinda sucks (saw several of them in person, not impressed) the mawkrusha is awesome. The starter boxes are very poor in quality and character jacks at the prize of 65 USD are ridicolous. Nothing and I say nothing justify the price tag of them. Apart we made them incredibly good so you want to have them. A gw start collecting box with a big model, a hero and infantry is roughly the same price.
5) All the negativity/toxicity talk was toxic itself. People on forums fight. Some fights are OK and even entertaining, some of them become flame. I've been on Italian forums for decades and mods know when let a entertaining fight going on a bit and when shut down a flame. Removing all the places of discussion is incredibly short sighted. It makes the company appear tyrannical and incapable of handling complaints. Looks like that things went downward when the community manager was employed. It's always like this. Companies tend to employ community managers who do not play the game, do not know what players are passionate about, can't handle that certain type of community. Warmahordes community was kinda hardcore so yes it will be a time when shit hit the fan, but deal with it firmly instead of shutting down everything. I have no reason to go on the official forum anymore, for them it's fine as long as I keep buying, but without the excitement going around in the forum, would I? In the very beginning PP made fun of GW, I remember when they launched the game and had page 5. People bought into them because they were tired of GW. Now they become the exact image of the company they were despising so much. What reason do I have to support them instead of GW? Basically none. It's true, when you stare long enough into the abyss, the abyss will stare back at you.
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faelin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 121
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Post by faelin on Mar 7, 2017 8:20:25 GMT
I am a fan of being somewhat heavy handed in policing their own forums. I have no problem with clamping down on negative and toxic posts and think the censorship actually helps. Just be open about it and say 'Hey guys, we're going to be clamping down on negative posts, here's why'. Then sit your High School intern down and have him spend all day deleting posts.
I was getting tired of the 'Nerf X Please' threads.
But closing the forums is a bit much. One of the reasons that I started WMH was because it had a centralized community. Now I might switch over the Guild Ball or 40K. The 40K group meets on a better day at my LGS and Guild Ball recently hired DC to work for them(The guy who made Convergence of Cyriss).
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Post by malnorma on Mar 7, 2017 8:45:27 GMT
and Guild Ball recently hired DC to work for them(The guy who made Convergence of Cyriss). ...and they're releasing a new tabletop game this year, more of a skirmish level game with a world that involves fantasy elements... (Guild Ball is good fun too)
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Post by RamsesII on Mar 7, 2017 9:35:45 GMT
Yeah I had all of my posts from this morning deleted, received an infraction from PP for one post (with no warning because I said "let it wither" in regards to the forums, and now all of my posts have to be inspected by a moderator first. And what was my post content that was so heinous to receive such action? For merely pointing out that saying you're streamlining the forums for the benefit of new people and then to turn around and nuke the forums of all the concentrated faction content which is a great resource for everybody don't logically go together...seems like a reasonable response. Now I see that at least one thread is up where people are saying the same thing as me but in a much worse way and are all going unlocked and uncensored...unreal.
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kaos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 268
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Post by kaos on Mar 7, 2017 10:00:43 GMT
To be honest it was better to say we will shut down the forum for good. Save what you need and take your business somewhere else. If you're not there to praise them you will get your ass banned and the post deleted. This kind of behaviour is usually the start of the end. When wmh sales will go down then heads will roll like happened at GW. I hope some guys there will start get their shit together like they're doing at GW, since GW looks now objectively better than PP and this is a hell of statement I though I would never make.
I don't think the heavy censorship was good at all, containing the negativity in your home also give you the possibility to reply and completely invalidate the troll/toxic character point. The community will probably support you. In this instance people will fragment in several forums and such, a new player would probably come into these and what will find? People spewing bile.
I repeat I still like the game, warmachine is one of my favorite, but jeez if I hate PP behavior of late. And they used to be awesome.
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