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Post by Gaston on Jul 15, 2018 3:23:07 GMT
In this pair Rask/Helga does helga deal with Cryx with no Mist speaker with Rask nor Helga for that matter? Sorry if I gave the impression that they were a tournament list pair, I more meant "this are the two lists I want to test right now". However, pairing them is an interesting thought, in which case the Speaker goes with Helga in lieu of Kwaak. Perhaps I shall try that now.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 24, 2018 16:39:08 GMT
Ok, so tournament time! Fair warning, I managed to be my own worst enemy here, and netted a well deserved 1-3, ugh. Time for some humble pie. Rask, WWFF -Soul Slave -Wrastler -Horror -Horror Meat Thresher Dahlia -Skarath Rorsh -Brine -Battle Boar Witch Doc Croc Gobber Chef Eilish Garrity Helga, WWFF -Soul Slave -Road Hog -Road Hog -Road Hog -Battle Boar Dahlia -Skarath Wrong Eye -Snapjaw Mist Speaker Bone Shrine Feralgiest Feralgiest Orin Midwinter Witch Doc Witch Doc Chef Game #1 Intercessor Kreoss, Faithful Masses -Hierophant -Redeemer -Sanctifier -Revenger -Templar Champion Champion Covenant Vilmon Vassal Mechanik Vassal Mechanik Wrack Eiryss1 Choir (min) Idrian Skirmishers (max) -Chieftain and Guide He won the roll, elected to go first. Kreoss Turn 1: Arcan Ward on Idrians, Ignite on left Champion, Assail on Sanctifier. Everything runs up, Idrians mini-feat. Rask Turn 1: Fury on Brine, Admonition on forward Swamp Horror. Thresher rolls up and dismounts the left Champion. Most everything else runs up, Rask feats. Kreoss Turn 2: Idrians and left Champion run forward to jam. Book moves up and chants no spells. Kreoss feats to move around upkeeps given that Eilish will just strip two of them next turn anyway. Ignite gets moved onto right Champion, Arcane Ward on Kreoss, I think. Rask Turn 2: The book is messing with my mojo. Thresher scoots around and knocks off 4 Idrians, leaves the Champion on 1 HP. Eilish tries to Bleed him to death, but accidentally wanders into Book range so oops. Soul Slave managed to kill him off though. Skarath gets Shadow Walk. Rask moves Fury onto the Horror, puts down a Veil of Mists. Skarath charges through the Horror and a couple Idrians, crit consumes the book, Overtakes to eat an Idrian. Wrastler puts Rage on the Horror, eats 3 more Idrians. Horror walks in, eliminates the Templar, Vilmon, and Overtakes to engage the Revenger. Rorsh uses Diversionary on Brine, puts Primal on right Horror. Right Horror walks around to attack the right Champion, does like nothing. Battle Boar runs. Brine walks up to to Redeemer, gets a crit KD, bad damage rolls leave him on 3 health (cortex). CP: 2-0 Kreoss Turn 3: Eiryss rolls up, strips Rask’s fury. Mechanik rolls back to repair Redeemer. Choir Chants Battle. Sanctifier and right Champion kill Brine. Redeemer stands up, shoots my objective 3 times, boosting blast on Rask, kills Rask. Lessons Learned: Yeeeeeup, I left an opening and he took it, good for him. I count this one as a loss based on operator error--I could have easily primaled Brine and just walk/run the Horror, that would have guaranteed the Redeemer died. He still could have put 2 Idrian shots and Eiryss on Rask though, so it is still not a fool proof plan, but better than dying. That being said, even unbuffed, I think it is pretty reasonable for Brine to kill a Redeemer with his 7 attacks???
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Post by Gaston on Jul 24, 2018 16:39:22 GMT
Game #2 The Heretic, Dark Menagerie ---Sacrifice ---Reckoning ---Ill Omens -Cage Rager -Cage Rager -Rattler -Skin and Moans -Skin and Moans -Crabbit Death Knell Gremlin Swarm Gremlin Swarm Gremlin Swarm Dread Rots (max) Dread Rots (max) Helga Turn 1: Everything runs on up, the things that need to get through terrain get what they need. Helga puts up Dash, Def Ward on Snapjaw, Cyclones up. Dahlia puts up Haunting Melody. Heretic Turn 1: Things run forward, Fury goes on the right Skin, Flame Wall in front of my left flank. Helga Turn 2: Skarath moves up and Sprays his left Skin, boosts hit and damage. Snapjaw moves up and submerges. Wrong Eye moves up, Star Crossed and Submerge. Helga puts up Dash and Primal on the left Road Hog via the Bone Shrine. Feralgiest runs to engage the Skin. Road Hog forces for speed, charges, kills it, lightning strikes back. One Road Hog sprays a Dread rot or two, the other gets magical and sprays a Gremlin Swarm. Soul Slave puts Distraction on Dread Rots. I completely hose myself on clock figuring this turn out, I am down to 18 minutes left. Heretic Turn 2: Cage Rager hops in the zone, Rattler runs to contest the flag. Right Cage Rager is able to scoot over, Heretic Gallows my Road Hog. Gremlin Swarm runs to contest my zone, another grabs the flag. Dread Rots charge my Road Hog, mixed results due to Distraction and some Star Crossed. Skin and Moans kills it no problemo though. CP: 0-2 Helga Turn 3: Dahlia cancels the Road Hog frenzy. Road Hog, Skarath, Orin clear out enough Rots to send a Primal’d Snapjaw in to kill the Skin. Soul Slave Distracts one unit of Rots, Wrong Eye submerges and Star Crosses. Helga tosses a Muzzle at the Rattler via the Bone Shrine (miss), walk, cyclone, boosted shot into Gremlin Swarm in zone (miss), Distract on second Dread Rot unit (hit). Dahlia runs up to contest. CP: 0-2 Heretic Turn 3: Dread Rots come forward, he uses a free strike to trigger Reckoning (oops! But clever). Puts that on Snapjaw. Cage Rager uses animus, kills Snapjaw. Heretic arcs Hex Blast via the other Cage Rager and kills Dahlia in melee after stripping Haunting Melody. Dread Rots charge the Chef, all miss. Rattler kills Bone Shrine, beats up my right Road Hog. CP: 0-3 Helga Turn 3: Wrongeye kills a Dread Rot, pops Ill Omens. Soul Slave Distracts Dread Rots again. Battle Boar Primals the Road Hog. Helga Cyclones back over, feats. Orin runs to trigger gang. Road Hog kills Cage Rager by slamming it into a building over and over. Witch Doc moves to Rattler, Road Hog fails to kill it. CP: 1-3 Heretic Turn 3: Dread Rots kill Soul Slave and Chef. Hex Blast from Heretic kills contesting Feralgiest. Cage Rager runs up. Rattler keeps swinging away on Road Hog. CP: 1-4 Helga Turn 4: I am outta time. Helga Cyclones forward, tries to Muzzle Heretic, he cannot be targeted. She shoots him for fun, Road Hog tries to assault spray, misses. Game. Lessons Learned: I need to spend a lot of time thinking over this one. My knee jerk coming out of the game was that he straight up outplayed me, both in clock, scenario, and attrition. Writing the report and looking back over it, I think I did better than I thought, but that doesn’t mean there is room for a huge amount of improvement.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 24, 2018 16:39:36 GMT
Game #3 Garryth, Defenders of Ios -Fane Knight Guardian -Banshee -Moros AFG AFG Aelyth Vyr Arcanist Arcanist Eiryss1 Ghost Sniper Ghost Sniper Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen Ryssovass Defenders (max) -Soulless Escort Stormfall Archers -Soulless Escort Garryth Turn 1: He runs up! Mirage on Garryth, Sentry on Eiryss. Rask Turn 1: Fury on Brine, Admonition on forward Horror, cloud to prevent Moros nonsense. Feat turn!!! Garryth Turn 2: He runs on up some more, puts Heightened Reflexes on the Defenders. Rask Turn 2: Objective gives Pathfinder to Brine. Swamp Horror drags in Skeryth, basically does nothing. Brine diversionary’s Rorsh forward. Wraster puts Rage on him, swings on Skeryth, does basically nothing. 3rd Horror comes in and finally eats him. Sheeeeeesh. Brine goes and kills the AFG. Rask shoots Heightened Reflexes off of the Defenders, puts Elasticity on the Thresher. Dahlia grabs the flag. Skarath sprays down 4 Defenders. Thresher rolls in and kills like 4 of them. CP: 2-0 Garryth Turn 2: Defenders chop up on the Thresher. Moros gets Concentrated Power, puts 5 swings into the Thresher. AFG boosted shot kills it, another shot knocks Dahlia off the flag. Eiryss and Ghost Snipers put some shots into Brine and Swamp Horror. Stormfalls shoot him too. Banshee finishes him off. Garryth grabs the flag. CP: 2-1 Rask Turn 3: I see a way to win on Scenario. One Wrastler frenzies. Gobber Chef grabs my flag. Dahlia moves up, Mist Walker on Skarath. Rask moves up, Rage and Fury on Wrastler, Rage on Skarath. Skarath kills his objective. Soul Slave moves up and tosses a boosted Bone Shaker at his Banshee. This basically ends me, I needed him to put Boundless Charge on the Horror to get the Guardian in range to prevent him from contesting the flag. Did that totally to myself. Wrastler goes and kills the Banshee. Horror gets Primal, charges Garryth now, pulls him away from the Guardian, but doesn’t come close to killing him. Rorsh was in range to run to flag, tat would have been the last point. CP: 5-1 Garryth Turn 3: Rask dies like he deserves to. Lessons Learned: Well that was an unnecessary loss. Other than the obvious, I think I needed to push harder on getting the Thresher into Moros. I had the actual distance, but the placement was pretty rough trying to fit my big ole butt into a whole unit and around the house.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 24, 2018 16:39:47 GMT
Game #4: Sorscha3, Armored Corps -Victor Kovnik Mechaniks (min) Bombardiers (max) -UA Demo Corps (max) Shocktroopers (max) -UA Shocktroopers (max) -UA Rask Turn 1: The usual. The big difference here is he counter deployed to me, so the Squids and the Thresher have to swap sides so that the squids face the shield wall and the Thresher gets the not sturdy guys. Sorscha Turn 1: Running, probably Iron Flesh on the Shocktroopers, Victor misses a shot on Skarath. Rask Turn 2: Dahlia runs up to put the Shocktroopers into Haunting Melody so they can no longer Shield Wall, Skarath sprays 3. Thresher scoots over and shoots down 2 Demo Corps. Rask feats, drops a Veil of Mists on the building to help the Thresher maneuver next turn. Sorscha Turn 2: One Man-o-War dies to corrosion. Another walks up into Skarath Counterblast range and gets eaten. Another walks up. Victor uses him as a beacon to pump a fire damage shot into Dahlia. Sorscha counter feats. CP: 1-1 Rask Turn 3: He counterfeated, but I am too close now. Thresher goes in, kills 2 Demo Corps, 2 Bombardiers, puts shot into Victor. Brine gets Raged up, Shadow Walk. Rorsh Diversionary Tactics him into the cloud wall. He then charges and kills Victor. Admonition Squid gets Rage as well, scoots up and kills the objective, overtakes back. Dahlia backs up, Skarath eats 2 more Shocktroopers. CP: 3-1 Sorsch Turn 3: Bombardiers beat up on Brine. Shocktroopers Shield Wall and finish him off (squid Admonitions away). Sorscha flees the Thresher, lobs shots into Dahlia. CP: 4-1 Rask Turn 4: Thresher kills final Demo Corps and last 4 Bombardiers. Horror gets Primal, charges and kills Sorscha. Lessons Learned: Unlike the other games, this was a match up I had practiced. I knew exactly what to do and how to execute and I think it really shows the importance of practice. So not the smoothest tournament by any definition, but I much rather player error be the cause of my losses than dice or list. I can fix player error….I hope!
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Post by Gaston on Jul 25, 2018 1:19:24 GMT
Photos added.
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fryta
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
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Post by fryta on Jul 28, 2018 11:52:02 GMT
Wow, that last game tresher really shined!
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Post by Gaston on Jul 29, 2018 18:47:08 GMT
Wow, that last game tresher really shined! If you can get it in the right situation it is a monster!
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Post by Gaston on Jul 30, 2018 0:29:46 GMT
With NOVA Open coming up, it was time to blow the dust off some of my older lists. Jaga-Jaga, Blindwater Congregation -Soul Slave -Wrastler -Boneswarm -Boneswarm Sacral Vault Husk Husk Longchops Totem Hunter Bone Shrine Croak Raiders (max) -Void Leech Croak Raiders (max) -Void Leech Bog Trog Ambushers (min) Boil Master and Spirit Cauldron I went up versus our local Merc guru, and was given a choice between Shae and Ossrum. I opted for Ossrum as I have heard he is very popular and have not played against him in about 2 years. General Ossrum, Irregulars -Basher -Basher -Driller -Driller -Driller -Driller -Blaster -Blaster -Blaster -Blaster Di Bray Eiryss Harlan Versh Kell Bailoch Orin Midwinter Herne and Jonne Aiyana and Holt Kayazy Eliminators Whoooo boy, that is a LOT of beef. I was already feeling shaky going into Ossrum in the first place, and that list is quite intimidating. Jaga Turn 1: Run on up, Signs and Battle Host on Jaga. Forward Boneswarm gets 2 corpses. A Husk is blown up to create a cloud to block LoS. Ossrum Turn 1: Fire For Effect on Jonne, Snipe on Kell. Most everything runs on up, Kell and Eiryss kill off 3 Croaks. Jonne kills off 2 Ambushers with FFE. Jaga Turn 2: He has pushed up his heavies very far and kept his juicy support further back. Basically he is daring me to come forward to feat. Soul Slave puts Ghost Walk on Ambushers, they run. Husk charges a Basher. Jaga moves up, feats, Signs and Portents. Kell and Eiryss die. Husk goes into the Basher. Ambusher into another Basher, final Ambusher into the left Blaster. Jaga camps 2. Right Croaks move up and kill the center Basher. Wrastler puts Rage on the Boneswarm, it gets a final corpse and Puppet Strings. It is able to advance and kill a Driller. Sacral Vault walks up and puts shots into the other Basher (kills it?). Croaks move up and kill the left Blaster, put some damage onto the Driller. Boneswarm walks to try to block LoS to Jaga. Ossrum Turn 2: Upkeep FFE, put snipe on Versh, feat. Versh walks up, is able to draw LoS to Jaga, rolls four shots. First is 8 (transfer to Swarm), 7 (transfer to Wrastler), 5 (take), 0 (from sketchy memory). Jonne gets Artillerist, moves up and shoots Jaga, misses. Left Driller charges forward Swarm, misses. Another Driller comes forward and kills it. Two Blaster spray down Objective, Wrastler, Boneswarm, Jaga (or some combination therefore off), only 1 point of damage on Jaga (dice off 8). 8 damage on the objective. Orin, Holt, and 3rd Blaster kill 7 innocent Croak Raiders. CP: 1-0 Jaga Turn 3: Pot scoots back, fills up Boneswarm. Jaga puts up Signs, moves back, Rage on Wrastler and Boneswarm. Boneswarm is able to kill one of the Blasters. Wrastler takes the Driller down to 3 health or so, also cripples the Blaster with claw attacks. Totem Hunter takes out Versh and Herne. Croaks take on Orin, Jonne, and lay some damage on the left Driller (it is Arm 22 so they do what they can to sandpaper some damage onto it for next turn). Vault moves up and finishes off central Driller. CP: 3-0 Ossrum Turn 3: Di Bray comes in and murderizes the Totem Hunter. Ossrum casts Energizer to move some stuff around. Eliminators charge and kill 3 Croaks. Black Driller comes up and brings the Vault down to 4 HP. Silver Driller misses its initial attack on the Wrastler, which is just enough for the Wrastler to survive. Blaster takes a free strike from the Boneswarm and dies. Other Blaster sprays the Swarm and Wrastler, but it is not enough. Holt comes forward and kills Longchops. CP: 3-0 Jaga Turn 4: Jaga casts Signs, 2 to heal the Wrastler, 2 for Rage on the Swarm. Pot moves up and puts Puppet Strings on the Wrastler. Wrastler kills the Driller. Boneswarm kills the Blaster. Void Leech charges and misses Holt. Soul Slave puts Ghost Walk on Croaks. Croaks work on the Driller, but it takes the Vault all 3 shots to finish it off. CP: 4-0 Ossrum Turn 4: Eliminators charge and kill the poor Vault. Holt risks a free strike and the Void Leech actually gets him. Ossrum charges a Croak, Strangleholds Jaga for 5 damage, second Stranglehold misses. Ossrum concedes. Lessons Learned: Eeeesh. I think that was way, way closer than the end result makes it seem. I did stupid things like forget about Snipe Versh until it was too late to properly screen Jaga, that could have been very, very ugly for me. I also think that I got super lucky with the Driller leaving the Wrastler alive. I also forgot about di Bray when she struck the Totem and forgot to measure her the next turn for Jaga (got lucky she was out of range basically). So...a whole lotta luck in this game I feel for me and a lot of areas where I could tighten up gameplay. That being said, I am surprised and impressed that the list was able to do the damage to out attrition all the Arm 18+ that he brought. Additionally, his solo selection was brutal on my poor Croak Raiders, and I regret not being able to pick on them a bit better with the Vault. I am thinking though that Longchops time in the list has come to an end. He simply hasn’t been pulling his weight overmuch, and if this list is to play the Cryx match up, the Mist Speaker is pretty mandatory. Additionally the cloud would have been handy versus Versh (positioning dependant of course).
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Post by GYF on Jul 30, 2018 2:38:04 GMT
Nothing quite having evidence of a lot of nonsense preserved for posterity to encourage you to straighten things out and work out those kinks. It was a very good game; the assassination was a poor choice that I was rightly punished for in running out of steam based on keeping a lot of valuable attacks on the board for turns of work. Everything else was a micro issue but that was a macro poor routing choice.
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Aug 2, 2018 19:44:29 GMT
Tried the meat thresher with Rask and found it quite mediocre. Most medium infantry seems to be immune to knockdown and things like champions or shocktroopers or even the demicorps don't die to it (or how does sanguine bond work vs simultaneous attacks?). Bulldoze is also not a thing as all these units are played with the 3+2 until they beat it to death, which they seem to do without trouble.
Have you encountered these problems Gaston? Still sticking with it?
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Post by Gaston on Aug 3, 2018 13:54:57 GMT
Tried the meat thresher with Rask and found it quite mediocre. Most medium infantry seems to be immune to knockdown and things like champions or shocktroopers or even the demicorps don't die to it (or how does sanguine bond work vs simultaneous attacks?). Bulldoze is also not a thing as all these units are played with the 3+2 until they beat it to death, which they seem to do without trouble. Have you encountered these problems Gaston? Still sticking with it? I am still sticking with it. Each unit of medium base infantry requires slight modifications. Example: For Shocktroopers, I have never actually tried to put the Thresher into them. The Swamp Horrors are in the list to handle sturdy shield wall, and handle it they do quite well based on the 3 games I have posted. In the case of Demo Corps and Sanguine Bond mini-feat, you resolve all of the damage rolls before they get to share (Page 43 of Primal, resolving simultaneous attacks). So at Arm 16, you are doing 9-10 damage average unless you put on Fury, which is then doing 12-13 damage average. Then if they do shuffle damage around, you get your gun shots, which are 13+1, so 5 damage average there, 10-20 more damage. As far as Champs go, with Madrak they do indeed make me super nervous with the Thresher, it needs 10's to hit which means that you are a bit too close to average for my taste (Calaban is better though). The flip side of that is Jaga is my Rask pair and Madrak drop, she can handle him just fine. But if you do go into them, positioning will of course play a big part, as well as the Swamp Horrors. The Horrors can let you break up bricks a bit when things are just too jammed in to bulldoze. Pick a central Champ, paralyze him with Rask, put Elasticity and Fury on the Thresher. Have a Horror just wail on the champ with 4" reach and rage, they will let it die. This gives the Thresher LOS to probably 3 guys in the back rank, increasing the models you can swing on and thus increasing damage output. At Pow 19, the Thresher is averaging 8 damage on 5 wound models, maximizing hitting is the bigger concern. Positioning wise, you have several options. You can use an Admonition Horror to bust up the ranks. You can also drop a Veil of Mists on the front rank, go ghostly on the Thresher and just move through them. If you within walking of the back rank and they don't have sturdy you can use Bulldoze to create a landing spot for yourself too. I do think it is important to hold the Thresher back a bit and not over commit it too soon--I say this because I do exactly that all the time and pay for it!!!
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Post by apoc2148 on Aug 6, 2018 12:57:34 GMT
... I am thinking though that Longchops time in the list has come to an end. He simply hasn’t been pulling his weight overmuch, and if this list is to play the Cryx match up, the Mist Speaker is pretty mandatory. Additionally the cloud would have been handy versus Versh (positioning dependent of course)... This is the sentiment I'm overall starting to come to with Longchops as well. I keep putting him into lists hoping that he will be contributing more to keeping models safer via his trap. All he ends up doing is camping a flag, killing 1 model a turn and dying to any return fire. I've been subsequently dropping him from lists in favor of witch docs, mist speakers and soul slaves. (Most of the time as a free model)
Maybe if he got a second shot if he aimed he could be more useful in a list. . .
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Post by Dirhavel on Aug 7, 2018 5:17:32 GMT
Just a thought but if you're thinking about replacing Longchops, could Linus & Edrea be a worthy replacement? It would be a straight swap with the cauldron taking Longchops' free slot.
They probably wouldn't help as much as a mist speaker against Cryx but it seems to me that the anti-cloud tech could be very useful for the croaks in some other matchups. Besides, while Guidance is great, in my experience you really only "need" it against Skarre 1's wraith engines and there doesn't seem to be a great target in your list to go WE hunting before Skarre's feat turn...
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Post by Gaston on Aug 8, 2018 22:57:44 GMT
Just a thought but if you're thinking about replacing Longchops, could Linus & Edrea be a worthy replacement? It would be a straight swap with the cauldron taking Longchops' free slot. They probably wouldn't help as much as a mist speaker against Cryx but it seems to me that the anti-cloud tech could be very useful for the croaks in some other matchups. Besides, while Guidance is great, in my experience you really only "need" it against Skarre 1's wraith engines and there doesn't seem to be a great target in your list to go WE hunting before Skarre's feat turn... Denny2 would also be a concern with the incorporeal jack feat, maybe? WE has 26 health at Arm 18; so a Swarm is Pow 18 + Signs (+2 damage per hit), 3 swings (with 1 fury for the charge), 9*3 = 27, + 3 for charge is 30. Overkill by 4. For additional protection could feat a Husk on it for a boosted Pow 16 Signs, off 2 is 10 or so more damage. Distances and positioning are what they are of course. Skarre's feat making for +5 Arm means I would need to find a way to time walk it I assume. But I will most likely be target saturated at that point anyway. Jaga can kill Arm 23 at 26 boxes though, just takes a lot more resources that I'd rather not spend. I haven't tried Linus and Edrea, but I spent 5 minutes or so dreaming that Applied Knowledge effected Jaga's feat...such dreams....
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