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Post by Gaston on Mar 24, 2018 19:08:41 GMT
Vassal pre-measuring is super easy nowadays. You just use the bubble feature which measures increments of distance in an arc around whatever model you have selected. I found that feature out on my opponent's turn lol. We were both playing vassal for the first time basically, so very awkward and educational.
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Post by Gaston on Mar 31, 2018 20:07:41 GMT
Sorry I haven't been posting battle reports, I keep video taping my games instead! Maelok vs. Moshar, now with 100% more Dracodile
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Post by Gaston on Apr 1, 2018 1:52:16 GMT
I have been on a Helga dojo kick recently, and I think built well and played right she is a sleeper Minions hit. That being said, while I have the bones of the list pretty well settled, getting the nitty gritty details right is proving to be a challenge. So there is really nothing for it but to go forth and grind games until I iterate to a solution! Helga the Conqueror, Will Work for Food -Gatorman Soul Slave -Battle Boar -Road Hog -Road Hog -Road Hog -War Hog Dahlia -Skarath Feralgiest Feralgiest Feralgiest Orin Midwinter Totem Hunter Gatorman Husk Gatorman Husk Kwaak and Gub Gobber Chef I went up against macdaddy , whom I am pretty sure is in the same college experimental phase as I am, but with grumpy old men. Hierarch Severius, Faithful Masses -Hierophant -Templar -Templar -Blessing of Vengeance Choir (min) Idrian Skirmishers (max) -UA Idrian Skirmishers (max) -UA Allegiant of the Order of the Fist Allegiant of the Order of the Fist High Paladin Dartan Vilmon Vassal of Menoth Vassal of Menoth Vassal Mechanik I won the roll, elected to go first, because you know….I work for food. He preys a Road Hog and Skarath, I prey Vilmoney. Helga Turn 1: Def Ward on Skarath, Dash, run up. Dahlia Mist Walkers both her and the Snake, they run up and Prowl. Most everything stays just out of Idrian range (quite a few can get on the lead Road Hog, who is Enliven’d). Sevy Turn 1: Arcane Ward on the left Idrians. They advance, put 2 CRAs into the Road Hog, both miss (bad dice). Right side Idrians advance and mini-feat. Pretty much everything else advances. Helga Turn 2: Hmm, I have options. Kwaak Enlivens 2 Road Hogs. One Road Hog charges a Def 15 Idrian, accidentally kills it with the spray so no Sprint, kinda leaves his butt hanging out there. Totem Hunter advances, leaps, kills 2 Idrians and undigs a 3rd, sprints back. Helga advances, tags the 3rd Idrians with Distraction, shoots it Cyclones back. Skarath sprays down 2 more of the right side Idrians, puts up Counterblast. On the left side, 2 more Road Hogs spray down another 3 Idrians, Husks run up as far as I can. Sevy Turn 2: 1 Templar comes forward, opts to not blow up the Husk because it would cause issues (order of activation mistake I think?). Left Idrians advance, CRA the prey Road Hog, he Enlivens to engage, they Reposition to block the other Enliven’d Road Hog. Second Templar comes in and blows away the Road Hog. Blessing comes in and kills a Husk. Sevy moves up, feats, blows up 2 Feralgiests, a Chef, and Orin Midwinter. He shoots something or another with a spell probably. Right Idrians run, one gets eaten by Skarath counterblast. Vilmon caps the flag, Monks move up and sands. Things get Enliven’d. CP: 0-2 Helga Turn 3: Unhappy. Helga activates feats, Cylones to kill the 2 Idrians on Skarath, walks back, boosts an attack on a Monk (needed a 10), misses, tries to Distract the Idrians again, misses. Soul Slave swings and kills an Idrian jamming the Road Hog, tries to slam it into another Idrian but the distance is too low. Kwaak Venoms the Road Hog in the butt to kill an Idrian, Enlivens the Road Hog. Battle Boar Primal’s the War Hog. Dahlia puts up Haunting Melody and Mistwalker. Snake moves to contest the flag, eats the Monk, puts up Counterblast. Totem Hunter is free, he walks over and slams the Templars into each other. War Hog charges in and kills one Templar, but it takes all his attacks. Road Hog charges in and hurts the other Templar but it is fully operational. The other Road Hog is unfortunately out of Helga’s control, so he flails pitifully. CP: 0-2 Sevy Turn 3: Idrians charge their prey’d Road Hog, leave it on 5 or so health. Templar moves up and blows away the War Hog, starts on the Road Hog. Blessing comes to help kill the Road Hog. Sevy has to put up his buff spell and do it himself, he also damages Totem Hunter a bit. Right side Idrians charge and kill Totem Hunter. Vilmon charges the Snake, Counterblast and bond crit consume him (snicker). CP: 0-2 Helga Turn 4: Attrition and scenario have gotten away from me, but Sevy is nekkid. Kwaak moves up, sprays him twice, hits once for a few damage. A Feralgiest runs to engage Sevy. Helga casts Dash, Cyclones around the forest, charges Sevy. At Mat 8, Pow 14, 3 swings, she fails miserably to kill him. I concede. Lessons Learned: Complicated. I think we both came to the game looking for some clarification on our lists and got...halfway there. Player mistakes first: I Cyclone’d instead of casting Dash on Turn 2, that would have let me dig the Husks in deeper to try to spare the Road Hog. Additionally, leaving the Road Hog out of control range was a big, big mistake. On my feat turn I was looking to have it trample over the Idrians, and smack the two Templars together, getting at least 3 Pow 15 WM swings. Could have made a big difference there, depending on how things went. List-wise, from a high level the list did what I wanted it to do. The core concept behind the list is 4 sprays backed up by boosted Distractions from Helga and the Soul Slave. That should allow me to clear out a fair amount of infantry. Then when it comes time to crack armor, I have access to Gang, Primal, and (depending on positioning) the feat for extra damage dice. What I ran up against was a horrible lack of pathfinder. I had purposely pulled the Witch Docs out of the list in order to get more “work” models in and….it bit me on the ass pretty hard. Had she had pathfinder, Helga could have literally walked over and smacked Sevy on her feat turn. Sevy himself turned out to be a pretty tough customer, match up wise as well. Arcane Ward meant I could only control one unit of Idrians, additionally the feat took out most of the solos that I wanted to use to trigger gang, forcing me to send in the hogs unsupported. My biggest take away was to revert back to the version I played versus The Dreamer and tweak from there, but it was well worth the one loss to determine that the Docs are 100% needed. Sadly, I fear that may well be the case for all Farrow beast lists...thanks for the Full Boar nerf PP.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Apr 1, 2018 14:03:49 GMT
Sorry I haven't been posting battle reports, I keep video taping my games instead! Maelok vs. Moshar, now with 100% more Dracodile Nice game and congrats to the win. It´s the first Dracodile list that I like. Seems pretty interesting and I have to try it myself. ZK
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Post by Gaston on Apr 1, 2018 14:28:18 GMT
Sorry I haven't been posting battle reports, I keep video taping my games instead! Maelok vs. Moshar, now with 100% more Dracodile Nice game and congrats to the win. It´s the first Dracodile list that I like. Seems pretty interesting and I have to try it myself. ZK Thanks! The list is decent. Although I didn't do it in the video, if I had to go back, I would make the Ambushers a min unit and take a Thrullg. We also discussed a lot of second Thrullg or Totem Hunter, but I like the Hunter to jump over Posse, clear out jamming, and sprint away (in theory). I had built the list with a max unit of Ambushers in order to purposely AD them and use them as the Soul Harvester unit, the idea being that it would not compete with Snacking and they could bubble wrap the GMP. Unfortunately, they keep needing to ambush, so may as well go all in on that strategy.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Apr 1, 2018 15:51:39 GMT
Nice game and congrats to the win. It´s the first Dracodile list that I like. Seems pretty interesting and I have to try it myself. ZK Thanks! The list is decent. Although I didn't do it in the video, if I had to go back, I would make the Ambushers a min unit and take a Thrullg. But that would cost you a solo, because you can´t reach 60 points of units then.
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Post by Gaston on Apr 1, 2018 16:24:18 GMT
Thanks! The list is decent. Although I didn't do it in the video, if I had to go back, I would make the Ambushers a min unit and take a Thrullg. But that would cost you a solo, because you can´t reach 60 points of units then. Mmmm dang. Stupid math.
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Post by Gaston on Apr 6, 2018 1:23:46 GMT
With the cast back up, it is time to do some R&D. This go round...Maelok (no Dracodile, it’s for realz this time!). Maelok the Dreadbound, Blindwater -Soul Slave -Wrastler -Wrastler Thrullg Thrullg Witch Doc Croc Witch Doc Croc Gatormen Posse (max) Gatormen Posse (max) Gatormen Posse (max) Bog Trog Ambushers (min) Boil Master and Spirit Cauldron Bone Shrine I went up against one of our pretty competitive locals, who was playing a John DeMaris special! Grand Scrutator Severius, Creator’s Might -Hierophant -Blessing of Vengeance -Redeemer -Repenter -Repenter -Repenter Avatar of Menoth Covenant Tristan -Indictor Wrack Vassal Vassal Choir (min) Choir (min) Rhoven and Co. Sorry for all the proxies, it makes the pictures suuuuper confusing. I won the roll, elected to go first. Ambushers Ambushered. Vision starts on the Blessing, Def Ward on Avatar. Maelok Turn 1: Death Pact, Death Ride, Dirge of Mists, run up. Pot rolled 3 corpses. Sevvy Turn 1: Tristan puts IR on the Indictor, moves to grab the flag. Pretty much everything runs up, except for Sevvy who feats and charges, snagging Maelok. Maelok Turn 2: His feat is super, duper annoying. I can’t reave all my fury, so a Wrastler takes a check, but passes. Ambushers come in, knock off Tristan, Indictor goes inert. Maelok takes a step out of the feat, pulls from the Shrine, casts Rage on the Wrastler, Death Pact, feats. Thrullg goes through the building and removes Def Ward from Avatar, also disrupts a Repenter. Wrastler rips up the Avatar. Left Doc casts Death Ride, left Posse run/charge, one bits a Repenter, another swings on Sevvy but misses. Right Wrastler toes in the zone. Middle Posse run/charge in and nibble on a Repenter, Redeemer, Blessing. Right Posse fill in behind. Right Thrullg runs to be in position to grab the flag next turn. Sevvy Turn 2: He is pretty well and truly jammed up. The immediate concern is killing my right Thrullg, otherwise he loses on my turn. Rhoven and Co kill off the left Thrullg, he runs solos to contest the far corners of the zone. Book moves up and no spells. Repenters all Repent, Redeemer redeems in melee. This clears enough gators up for Blessing to get a bead on the Gator in front of my Thrullg. Two boosted Ashes to Ashes later, my beautiful Thrullgy is no more. CP: 2-0 Maelok Turn 3: I am looking to clear the upper zone. Posse prey for rerolls, chomp chomp but miss the mechanik behind the wall, so no scenario win for me. Ambushers clump further inward, kill 2 contesting Choir boys. The Cauldron moves up, tries to Puppet Strings the Soul Slave but is stopped by the book. Soul Slave tries to Mortality the Blessing, but misses by 1. Maelok moves up and casts Death Pact and Revive. Posse just charge in an chomp chomp on jacks, but don’t kill anything because even with rerolls I cannot roll 6’s (it got kinda ridiculous). But 3 of his lights are over half dead, so inch by inch. Witch Doc runs up the right side to be my solo huckleberry. CP: 4-0 Sevvy Turn 3: He is down to last ditch assassination. Rhoven clears a charge lane, Sevy charges in and tries to blast Maelok down with Immolations, but it doesn’t really happen (Arm 19 and 1 transfer). Lessons Learned: Guess Maelok is still good. Never hurts to double check! A few thoughts: I kinda want to explore dropping a Wrastler for x2 Boneswarms, then drop the Shrine and add in two Husks. I reaaaally want to at least give them a go with Maelok.
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Post by Azahul on Apr 6, 2018 3:53:18 GMT
With the cast back up, it is time to do some R&D. This go round...Maelok (no Dracodile, it’s for realz this time!). Ah yes, definitely a subject that requires intensive testing ...I mean, I spent Tuesday "testing" Arkadius, so it's not like I can talk. Maelok Turn 2: His feat is super, duper annoying. I can’t reave all my fury Huh, I hadn't realised your Warbeasts could die in your own Control phase? *eye twitching* Lessons Learned: Guess Maelok is still good. Never hurts to double check! A few thoughts: I kinda want to explore dropping a Wrastler for x2 Boneswarms, then drop the Shrine and add in two Husks. I reaaaally want to at least give them a go with Maelok. Man, one of my recurring thoughts running Husks with Sturm and Drang was that it would be really cool if they were Arm 18 against melee as well. The only potential downside is that you don't really have the means to blow them up yourself if you end up wanting to do so.[/quote][/quote]
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Post by Gaston on Apr 6, 2018 13:49:15 GMT
Ah yes, definitely a subject that requires intensive testing ...I mean, I spent Tuesday "testing" Arkadius, so it's not like I can talk. We don't know that Arkadius or Maelok isn't super strong!!! ....right? I may have had to "stop" "playtesting" "Arkadius" for the sake of my meta. Maelok Turn 2: His feat is super, duper annoying. I can’t reave all my fury Huh, I hadn't realised your Warbeasts could die in your own Control phase? *eye twitching* I regret nothing! Man, one of my recurring thoughts running Husks with Sturm and Drang was that it would be really cool if they were Arm 18 against melee as well. The only potential downside is that you don't really have the means to blow them up yourself if you end up wanting to do so. What happens if you are a dick and put Vision on one of them? Is it worth it?
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Post by Azahul on Apr 6, 2018 14:32:26 GMT
Vision doesn't really do anything for them, since I'm pretty sure everything on their card triggers on damage. Could let you ignore an attack that would otherwise one-shot them, but Vision is more "fun" for the opponent when it's sitting on a stealthy snake It's pretty amazing how much that spell skews the dice maths on survivability in a heavy vs heavy contest.
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Post by eterenal on Apr 8, 2018 14:35:30 GMT
I went up against one of our pretty competitive locals... Maelok Turn 2: Ambushers come in, knock off Tristan, Indictor goes inert. *head scratch emoji* Stuff like this happens in tournament games, but your opponent basically lost on turn 1 with his leaving Tristan in charge range of an ambushing unit. No way was he going to claw back into Maelok down a heavy. In a casual/practice game I'd typically offer my opponent the opportunity to just move the model back out of threat range of something like that, given its huge impact on the game and how easily it can be avoided. Regarding Husks you can always just not activate Maelok before attempting to blow your own dude up. Battlegroup wise I've been running him with a minimum points setup of Wrastler, Boneswarm, Bullsnapper. The Boneswarm hits way above its weight class with 3 corpses and Rage. The pot having something worthwhile to hand corpses to is also nice. Also gives you access to both an ARM and DEF buff for Maelok.
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Post by Azahul on Apr 8, 2018 20:45:29 GMT
Regarding Husks you can always just not activate Maelok before attempting to blow your own dude up. I wasn't referring to the Arm 18 so much as the fact that the list has no guns to let you detonate a Husk from afar.
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Post by Gaston on Apr 9, 2018 3:20:21 GMT
Stuff like this happens in tournament games, but your opponent basically lost on turn 1 with his leaving Tristan in charge range of an ambushing unit. No way was he going to claw back into Maelok down a heavy. In a casual/practice game I'd typically offer my opponent the opportunity to just move the model back out of threat range of something like that, given its huge impact on the game and how easily it can be avoided. Regarding Husks you can always just not activate Maelok before attempting to blow your own dude up. Battlegroup wise I've been running him with a minimum points setup of Wrastler, Boneswarm, Bullsnapper. The Boneswarm hits way above its weight class with 3 corpses and Rage. The pot having something worthwhile to hand corpses to is also nice. Also gives you access to both an ARM and DEF buff for Maelok. We do a pretty fair amount of oops takebacks locally, but it's a tricky thing with Ambush, because his mistake adds significantly to the value of why I am taking a unit with that ability in the first place. To his credit, he immediately pivoted to how to get Sevvy over there to re-ignite the jack. Ambush itself is a super swingy ability as well, but I like that it adds another thing onto my opponent's plate that they have to think about and position around (or I just don't own a 4th posse...). What I find is frequently it comes up pretty huge. ---The previous Maelok game, literally nothing was in range, but the Trogs did score a zone (before Moshar mercilessly mowed them down to a man). ---Game before that, they nipped Aiyana, Holt, and the Idrian Guide. ---Before that they ran onto the table and Old Witch gobbled them up. ---Before that they picked up a whole unit of Neighslayers. Insofar as good players making dumb mistakes, my favorite example that doesn't involve me getting Jaga killed on Turn 2 was a video we did on a channel quite a while back. It was Ragnar vs. Vyros1 and we had played 3 practice games before taping, and each one was a back and forth knock down drag out brawl. Then the camera comes out, he puts Ragnar in a silly spot, and gobble gobble, top of 2. I certainly have my fair share of dumb ones, even in this thread (I can think of 3 in the last 6 months off the top of my head). That got really rambly, TLDR, I don't have a good answer on ambush takebacks. List-wise, I fully and wholly appreciate the logic behind the Wrastler-Swarm-Snapper battlegroup. But I just can't get over my hatred of the Snapper and what a laden diaper of a beast it is. That is why I was looking at exploring 2 Boneswarms instead. I was also looking at adding a couple of Void Leeches into the list, purely as Pot-fuel (they are living), given that I am not sure a single pot can get both Swarms up to speed quick enough. But I am also uncertain that is the best use of my Leeches. I am also slowly, verrrrrry verrrrry slowly questioning the need for 2 Witch Doc Crocs. Very slowly.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 9, 2018 14:31:07 GMT
---The previous Maelok game, literally nothing was in range, but the Trogs did score a zone (before Moshar mercilessly mowed them down to a man). They should have known to stay off of Mohsars Lawn... List-wise, I fully and wholly appreciate the logic behind the Wrastler-Swarm-Snapper battlegroup. But I just can't get over my hatred of the Snapper and what a laden diaper of a beast it is. I think with rask it works. Because +6 swing and boundless on it is awesome.... kind of. Its like some of the trolls lights, you only ever really see them work right under a caster like ragnor or Grissel 1, who provides such a massive single target buff swing, that its worth taking a beast that is so terribad. Though I do think you are being too hard on the little guy, its not his fault the devs relegated him to spiny growth on a stick.
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