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Post by Aegis on Mar 13, 2017 18:03:01 GMT
There is basically no point in ever asking "Would this be legal?". All you will get are opinions, based on PPs guidelines to various extents. What is acceptable will vary from event to event. If you want to use non-standard models, you have to do two things in my opinion. 1. Figure out your own personal level of ambition and tolerance. Do you yourself think that it is acceptable to just swap one model for another? 2. Accept that you risk not being allowed to use your substitutes at events, where the risk increases depending on what your answer in 1. is. Yep! Conversions are all basically depending on the TO judgement, so even the best conversion ever can be ruled out if the TO is irreasonably strict about it. That said, using them straight as they are is very likely to be rejected, with some conversions that put them clearly into Legion (blighted mutations here and there, legion symbols, etc...) I think they would be a reasonable conversion that most TO would accept.
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Post by phantasmagorium on Mar 13, 2017 18:54:09 GMT
At a local event, I wouldn't care. At a con, I'd expect at least some level of effort to convert them (greenstuff the bone spurs that blighted Nyss all seem to have, for example). Just something so that they're not just an outright proxy.
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Mar 15, 2017 10:46:00 GMT
It's interesting to look at how we think about games/events and what we expect from different types of them. When it's just two friends playing a casual game, most people seem to say that they will accept pretty much anything, in terms of unpainted models, proxies, and so on. But the more public and high profile you get, the more "standards" people seem to expect. Where the gold standard is to use official models, fully and well painted, possibly with beautifying conversions to the base models. Proxies are an example of an "abberant" element that can be accepted casually, but becomes less and less acceptable as you rise in profile.
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Post by phantasmagorium on Mar 15, 2017 20:11:49 GMT
It's interesting to look at how we think about games/events and what we expect from different types of them. When it's just two friends playing a casual game, most people seem to say that they will accept pretty much anything, in terms of unpainted models, proxies, and so on. But the more public and high profile you get, the more "standards" people seem to expect. Where the gold standard is to use official models, fully and well painted, possibly with beautifying conversions to the base models. Proxies are an example of an "abberant" element that can be accepted casually, but becomes less and less acceptable as you rise in profile. Well, I don't know about the beautifying stuff (I use painted models at events because it's prettier), but I'm stricter on proxies / conversions at larger events because there's more people involved and less time to deal with it. If you're at the FLGS, telling your buddy what all your proxies are is fine, and taking the extra time to make sure he remembers what's what is all good. If you're at a con, we're on a timetable - and if your opponent makes an error because he got your proxies mixed up, there's grounds for him to complain, and then I have to deal with it. Better to just not deal with it at all. Also, since it appears PP will be using temps to staff conventions where they are running things themselves now that the PG program has been dissolved, I would very much err on the side of caution as far as conversions go when going to one of their events. They have a set of rules in the Steamroller packet for what's okay and what isn't, and I imagine people who don't know the game will adhere to them fairly strictly.
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Mar 15, 2017 20:40:15 GMT
Makes sense.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 16, 2017 4:52:14 GMT
It's interesting to look at how we think about games/events and what we expect from different types of them. When it's just two friends playing a casual game, most people seem to say that they will accept pretty much anything, in terms of unpainted models, proxies, and so on. But the more public and high profile you get, the more "standards" people seem to expect. Where the gold standard is to use official models, fully and well painted, possibly with beautifying conversions to the base models. Proxies are an example of an "abberant" element that can be accepted casually, but becomes less and less acceptable as you rise in profile. I think it's more that the higher you go, the more likely it is for something to cause an issue, and therefore the closer you want to err to what you know will be accepted. Fully-painted, based, legal lists with no-proxies, and no conversions are pretty much guaranteed to cause no problems in any event at any level. As soon as you change any of that, the chance something won't fly increases.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Mar 19, 2017 4:26:56 GMT
According to the Steamroller rules he cannot unless he makse some sort of minor alteration to them to make them distinct from non-converted Ryssovass Defenders. For instance, he could swap bits with a Legion Legionnaires kit, giving the Legionnaire swords to the Ryssovass and vice versa would actually make both units legal to be fielded as either Legionnaires or Ryssovass. Alternatively something simple as shoulder spikes would qualify them as a converted model and legally fieldable as Legionnaires.
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