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Post by warriorofiron on Mar 12, 2017 20:04:07 GMT
So I have a legion player who is asking if he could use the new ret swordsman unit with the cloaks that are going to be released, as legionaries as they are pretty similar models and was wondering if they would be a legal substitute? What would you guys say?
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Post by malnorma on Mar 12, 2017 20:05:16 GMT
"You can't fool me, you aren't fielding Legionnaires"
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Post by Swampmist on Mar 12, 2017 20:05:46 GMT
Sadly we aren't official PP staff, so take this with a grain of salt, but seeing as the new ones are illegitimately just Legionnaires that aren't blighted (yet,) I don't see why not. Especially if you include Farilor, who does not have an equivalent.
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Post by malnorma on Mar 12, 2017 20:07:17 GMT
(more seriously, I doubt anyone would be confused about whether they were playing against Ret or Legion... I believe whether they're "legal" always depends on the organiser, but I wouldn't complain if it was my choice)
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Mar 12, 2017 20:17:29 GMT
I believe the model needs to be easily recognisable as the model it is "converted" to be.
Thing is that context is important as you aren't changing anything technically.
Any little thing you could do would help, but it really is up to the TO and I think if you went to any of the larger events it would cause some pause.
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Post by warriorofiron on Mar 12, 2017 20:19:54 GMT
That's what I was thinking! I'm pretty leninant and that's what I told him is it's up to the EO then again I've hardly had a EO say no about a model!
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Post by RamsesII on Mar 12, 2017 20:29:26 GMT
Yeah or if it is just you two playing outside of a tournament or official event why not let him substitute? It's up to you!
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Post by warriorofiron on Mar 12, 2017 20:30:47 GMT
Yeah or if it is just you two playing outside of a tournament or official event why not let him substitute? It's up to you! Oh no he was asking me from a tournament legal stand point as I usually run the events and he was asking about others! |
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685 
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Post by Lanz on Mar 12, 2017 20:33:19 GMT
Legally no, it's not allowed at all. The model conversion rules explicitly give an example of using a similar model for a different version. It's the same as not being allowed to use a model to represent its epic incarnation or vice-versa.
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Post by PG_AcidOverride on Mar 12, 2017 21:53:07 GMT
From a pure PP Steamroller Rules standpoint:
No. They are a different model. Using a similar model is not a conversion and even if it is from out of faction still gives the posibility for confusion.
As an EO my rule of thumb is simple. Show me a model, and you are allowed four words: "What model is this?" If I give the wrong answer, it isn't allowed. If I can't readily identify it because it is significantly converted, there may be leeway, but if it looks like a different model with no other information, then it is not a "legal" conversion.
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Post by warriorofiron on Mar 12, 2017 22:17:24 GMT
From a pure PP Steamroller Rules standpoint: No. They are a different model. Using a similar model is not a conversion and even if it is from out of faction still gives the posibility for confusion. As an EO my rule of thumb is simple. Show me a model, and you are allowed four words: "What model is this?" If I give the wrong answer, it isn't allowed. If I can't readily identify it because it is significantly converted, there may be leeway, but if it looks like a different model with no other information, then it is not a "legal" conversion. Now if their was some everblight symbols green stuffed onto the model would that allow for more lee way? |
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Post by protocon on Mar 13, 2017 1:39:08 GMT
My rule is always that if it can't be confused for something else in faction or an allowed merc/minion option, go for it.
Local here has a bunch of wood elves he uses as Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters, a bunch of cloaked elves with bows, don't see the issue.
EO rulings will always vary ofc.
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Post by PG_AcidOverride on Mar 13, 2017 10:08:40 GMT
Quite likely. As I said, if I identify the model with nothing said about it, I allow it. They look very similar, but because you are cross faction, having Legion symbols on it makes it hard to mis-identify.
That said, my original statement about official events still stands: in a PP run event it would not be allowed because it is actually a different model.
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Post by eldrak on Mar 13, 2017 11:12:49 GMT
No. You can't ever use a model as another model straight off.
But, with these you just have to do some very minor conversions to make them acceptable
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wishing
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by wishing on Mar 13, 2017 11:57:51 GMT
There is basically no point in ever asking "Would this be legal?". All you will get are opinions, based on PPs guidelines to various extents. What is acceptable will vary from event to event.
If you want to use non-standard models, you have to do two things in my opinion.
1. Figure out your own personal level of ambition and tolerance. Do you yourself think that it is acceptable to just swap one model for another?
2. Accept that you risk not being allowed to use your substitutes at events, where the risk increases depending on what your answer in 1. is.
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