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Post by zerohour on Mar 12, 2017 6:09:05 GMT
I come from a fairly small meta, and one of the more consistently top placing players is a trolls player. With all the talk about the Jack spamming armor lists, I feel like discussion about our old nemesis Trolls has fallen by the wayside. What lists do you guys like into trolls without just sacrificing other anti-armour matchups? Specifically casters like madrak who just can't be assassinated for anything.
I've been thinking about bringing Vayl 1 -Typhon -Scythean -2x Angelius -Seraph Hellmouth 2x Shepherd Forsaken
or something close to JVM's Thagrosh 1 list.
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Post by neutralyze on Mar 13, 2017 2:56:50 GMT
I feel Abby2 is typically one of the best troll drops.
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Mar 13, 2017 6:12:46 GMT
Abby2 is excellent. I've enjoyed Fyanna2 as well since Troll beasts usually have poor MAT so the Feat tends to be difficult for them to handle. That being said Trolls have nearly dropped off the face of the earth in my area so hard to say for sure.
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Post by risingchurch on Mar 13, 2017 7:44:21 GMT
Raptors can do a decent job of softening up some heavies, and can chew threw lights.
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Post by jansuza on Mar 13, 2017 11:42:49 GMT
I feel as if whatever you use as your anti-armour list should do just fine against trolls, with the possible exception of Madrak 2 and Calandra gunlines.
Abby 2, Fyanna, Twins, Thags 1 can all effectively out-range trolls, and smash hard enough to get through the stone's buff.
I think Trolls are in need of a re-do at the moment. There's not a lot in trolls that scares us at the moment.
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Post by neutralyze on Mar 13, 2017 20:33:00 GMT
I feel as if whatever you use as your anti-armour list should do just fine against trolls, with the possible exception of Madrak 2 and Calandra gunlines. Abby 2, Fyanna, Twins, Thags 1 can all effectively out-range trolls, and smash hard enough to get through the stone's buff. I think Trolls are in need of a re-do at the moment. There's not a lot in trolls that scares us at the moment. Legion does not out range doomy2. Trolls also are Typically harder targets so I wouldn't drop twins there. Trolls RFP with snacking so running thags1, while good, can still be a weird piece trading game that you can lose the advantage on
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Post by Methios on Mar 14, 2017 16:30:23 GMT
Hm im not so sure. Abby 2 is ok i gues. But she can struggle getting alpha hunter off so my best gues is Tharg2? Fyanna i didnt realy like. Even def 17 warbeast gets killed kinda easy with just boosting mat6 and rerolls from duhunian knot. Tharg one plays without a feat.
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Post by jansuza on Mar 14, 2017 17:31:21 GMT
Legion does not out range doomy2. Trolls also are Typically harder targets so I wouldn't drop twins there. Trolls RFP with snacking so running thags1, while good, can still be a weird piece trading game that you can lose the advantage on I suppose usually build my lists around getting the alpha off, but it may also be that my meta isn't quite as strong Anything flying has a minimum 13" threat with slipstream, and proteus adds a lot to extending threats for the rest of the list as well, which I find is usually more than enough against trolls. It's not a solid tactic, but with Abby against trolls, I've found it helps if the seraph shoots into a unit of trolls and hopes that somebody toughs so that you can run a martyr up and proc alpha hunter the knocked-down one. It only needs to work once!
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Post by methios on Mar 14, 2017 17:49:33 GMT
Doomy typicaly doesnt run units tho.
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Post by zerohour on Mar 14, 2017 18:13:28 GMT
Yeah I've had similar feelings about Aby2 and fayanna, their respective niches just seem slightly unreliable in the match-up. Thags1 feels fine but I feel like it's a dreadful grind game and it feels wrong playing into that hand at least until azrael releases.
I have a Lylyth1 list that I actually am looking forward to trying but I'm concerned tough is going to be too much of a determining factor for me to like the match-up too much. Anything without a scythean seems like it will have a rough time and I feel like lists with the scythean will typically have issues into the guns they can bring. Not unplayable by any stretch of the imagination but hard.
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Morkai
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 9
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Post by Morkai on Mar 15, 2017 10:52:17 GMT
I do play trolls quite often. Hi Trollock I would agree that Abby 2 is good into trolls but even she can be out threatened by Trolls with Doomie 2 So just make sure your other list can handle Doomie 2 (Not that hard with assasination) and then at least its a list-chicken game. I also like Fyanna 2, without tier, for the Troll match-up. My list loves an all melee based opponent in general. As a general note I still feel Legion has some difficulties cracking huge amounts of armor and trade in a good way.
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Post by Trollock on Mar 15, 2017 13:16:38 GMT
Dont listen to Morkai. He is 1-6 against Trolls with Legion this year. He even lost to Jarl twice! As a troll player though, Abby 2 feels like a fragile match up. If I play Doomy 2 and out threaten her, i think i win. Also, the rise in popularity of the Power of Dhunia Theme means that Abby might struggle to find models to trigger her +2 SPD from. If you have a Carnivean that threaten 12" (with slip stream and feat) and My beasts threaten 12" with feat, and 14 with Rush, then i think i can murder the Carnivean and be done. If the Carny is ARM 22 though it takes 2 beasts to get the job done (though i currently play a Bomber in the list to help soften things up for Mulg...) It all becomes an elaborate dance, and the one who gets the alpha wins. Fyanna is super scary UNLESS i play Doomy 2 or have a GK. If i have Doomy 2 i probably out threat Fyanna AND Wild Aggression is super strong against her feat. It is not an auto win by any means, because Dodge can mess things up big time. Basically you often get two turns of trying to kill my stuff before i get to kill your stuff. That can be a problem for sure, but since troll beasts are so beefy, it is still hard to trade against me. If i happen to have a Northkin shaman nearby the value of the feat goes way down, since DEF 15 is good, but boosted MAT 6 still have a very good chance to hit. If the troll brought Bombers, he also threatens the beasts at range which makes it hard to hold the feat until after you have alpha struck. Right now, it feels like Legion is disadvantaged against Trolls, but i have not faced the entire Legion stable, so there may be better options out there.
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Post by neutralyze on Mar 15, 2017 16:17:33 GMT
There is one warlock that out treats legion in melee and that's doomy2. To be fair, at convention I haven't seen many doomy2 lists in pairings right now. On top of that, if you play into a scenario that has an objective then you still have your ability to prod alpha hunter.
What makes you think trolls is our harder matchup currently? When ROW was around i would say yes. Now though, not really
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Post by Trollock on Mar 15, 2017 20:06:45 GMT
There is one warlock that out treats legion in melee and that's doomy2. To be fair, at convention I haven't seen many doomy2 lists in pairings right now. On top of that, if you play into a scenario that has an objective then you still have your ability to prod alpha hunter. What makes you think trolls is our harder matchup currently? When ROW was around i would say yes. Now though, not really I just speak from my personal experience as a troll player facing legion. I have no insight in to what other hard match ups you may face
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Post by zerohour on Mar 15, 2017 20:08:00 GMT
So what do you guys think Fyanna2 lists should look like for this sort of match-up? Is JVMs ravens build able to get the work done it needs to to at least pressure scenario victory, does this list need a hard hitting unit? Or is something inbetween, like an out of tier with Proteus, something worth considering?
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