Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 13, 2017 15:38:58 GMT
They have already said that contesting has not changed in any meaningful way. Currently hasn't changed. SR 2017 is going through CID so who knows what we're actually going to end up with.
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Post by dragonpup on Mar 13, 2017 15:43:13 GMT
Also to win on scenario you need to beat your opponent by 5 or 6 CP. Both scoring and neither scoring have the same outcome in that case.
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Post by wayniac on Mar 13, 2017 16:08:57 GMT
My hope is that it puts an end do hard skew lists. I am a big big fan of combined arms lists, so I hope that you will see more of those lists and less going for a skew one way or the other.
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Post by schostoppa1 on Mar 13, 2017 19:37:30 GMT
Im pretty sure the main things we dont know is the map layouts and the terrain guides.
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Post by HereComesTomorrow on Mar 13, 2017 20:34:38 GMT
Im pretty sure the main things we dont know is the map layouts and the terrain guides. I remember that terrain "deviates" after being placed. So far the only zone layout I've seen is a circle zone in the middle with rectangular zones touching it on either side. Save
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Post by phantasmagorium on Mar 13, 2017 20:48:46 GMT
Im pretty sure the main things we dont know is the map layouts and the terrain guides. I remember that terrain "deviates" after being placed. So far the only zone layout I've seen is a circle zone in the middle with rectangular zones touching it on either side. SaveThis sounds interesting for regular play if you're alternating terrain placement, and completely ignorable for tournament games where the TO set up the tables, so cool. I think we'll see more infantry in SR2017. As for how much of that is actually because of the steamroller packet vs just the meta shifting as it does, I don't know. We're already seeing more infantry without the influence of SR2017. More randomness is not "fun" in and of itself. Meaningless randomness is just irritating.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Mar 14, 2017 0:34:29 GMT
Also to win on scenario you need to beat your opponent by 5 or 6 CP. Both scoring and neither scoring have the same outcome in that case. This is an all-too-common misunderstanding that just won't die. Hungerford called that a "mercy rule," as in you win immediately because you're so far ahead. The primary means of winning on scenario will be to simply have more CP when the 5-7 turns are up. It's like baseball, only instead of 9 innings, we have 5. The 6th and 7th rounds are somewhat like extra innings. In fact, that is where the term "mercy rule" comes from. In little league baseball, many regions have a rule that they call a game if one team is running up the score when they have already sewn up a win. PP is doing this so scenario lists will have to actually play out the game. Control casters can still do their thing but you will no longer be able to crutch on a timewalk feat to shut out your opponent for one round and win in 3. Well, Haley 2 can still do that, but it will be much harder to pull it off. I expect that this will strengthen not only assassination lists by giving them more time to find a better opening, but also attrition lists, and especially anyone who can do both well. SR 2017 will probably help Cryx, Trolls, and Skorne considerably. Control players will need to be more mindful of attrition. Some will give up on that but the most skilled will stick with it and continue to win with it.
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proxy
Read Page 5
Posts: 21
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Post by proxy on Mar 14, 2017 0:37:11 GMT
Also to win on scenario you need to beat your opponent by 5 or 6 CP. Both scoring and neither scoring have the same outcome in that case. I am really hoping this is the case. I hope that new scenarios and elements shake up list building.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 14, 2017 1:53:32 GMT
Actually a greater focus on attrition would be disastrous for Cryx. Outside of The Ghost Fleet Cryx's attrition game is pretty mediocre. I've found by and large Mark3 Cryx relies on tempo, pushing hard for scenario and forcing my opponent to come forward with their caster hopefully opening up a path to assassination. Either they come forward to attrition me out and I can go for the assassination run, or they play cautiously and I can bully out a quick scenario win. Typically though assassination is how must of my games end. If scenarios are less live, and attrition becomes the main path to victory Cryx is going to struggle hard in its current state. Ghost Fleet aside, Cryx's units and jacks do not have enough staying power to play a long game unless your opponent messes up and you get an absurd alpha off that cripples them completely.
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mogbain
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 7
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Post by mogbain on Mar 14, 2017 8:47:12 GMT
Well it seems like the 2017 rules favour some already strong list. In my case I only see more reasons to keep playing damiano kingmaker.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Mar 15, 2017 0:22:18 GMT
Actually a greater focus on attrition would be disastrous for Cryx. Outside of The Ghost Fleet Cryx's attrition game is pretty mediocre. I've found by and large Mark3 Cryx relies on tempo, pushing hard for scenario and forcing my opponent to come forward with their caster hopefully opening up a path to assassination. Either they come forward to attrition me out and I can go for the assassination run, or they play cautiously and I can bully out a quick scenario win. Typically though assassination is how must of my games end. If scenarios are less live, and attrition becomes the main path to victory Cryx is going to struggle hard in its current state. Ghost Fleet aside, Cryx's units and jacks do not have enough staying power to play a long game unless your opponent messes up and you get an absurd alpha off that cripples them completely. Sorry if I wasn't totally clear on that, and I must also admit that I don't play against Cryx much anymore so it's harder to say. My understanding on this is that: 1) Some lists like Ghost Fleet will push hard on attrition with recursion, while others will edge out in matchups where your attrition game is indeed pretty mediocre but the opponent's is worse, especially with your debuffs factored in. 2) While other factions will use attrition to grind out a scenario win because you don't have anything left that can crack heavy armor etc, Cryx will use it to tear an opening for an assassination run. Of course, with a little finesse, you can leverage the ability to do that a turn earlier than say, Borka. We might even see things like Denny 1 with five arc nodes again. 3) Your mobility and ability to focus fire could still allow you to pull off a win by 6 every now and then, but not even Haley 2 will call that plan A very often, so don't sweat that.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Mar 15, 2017 0:26:32 GMT
Well it seems like the 2017 rules favour some already strong list. In my case I only see more reasons to keep playing damiano kingmaker. Some of them. I think it will help casters who can really seize upon an opening and hurt anyone who is banking on a timewalk feat, but that is intentional.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 17, 2017 13:26:32 GMT
Also to win on scenario you need to beat your opponent by 5 or 6 CP. Both scoring and neither scoring have the same outcome in that case. This is an all-too-common misunderstanding that just won't die. Hungerford called that a "mercy rule," as in you win immediately because you're so far ahead. The primary means of winning on scenario will be to simply have more CP when the 5-7 turns are up. It's like baseball, only instead of 9 innings, we have 5. The 6th and 7th rounds are somewhat like extra innings. In fact, that is where the term "mercy rule" comes from. In little league baseball, many regions have a rule that they call a game if one team is running up the score when they have already sewn up a win. PP is doing this so scenario lists will have to actually play out the game. Control casters can still do their thing but you will no longer be able to crutch on a timewalk feat to shut out your opponent for one round and win in 3. Well, Haley 2 can still do that, but it will be much harder to pull it off. I expect that this will strengthen not only assassination lists by giving them more time to find a better opening, but also attrition lists, and especially anyone who can do both well. SR 2017 will probably help Cryx, Trolls, and Skorne considerably. Control players will need to be more mindful of attrition. Some will give up on that but the most skilled will stick with it and continue to win with it. Huh, I did not know that, and I actually kind of like it. It means you won't have to shake hands with Haley 2 after turn 3 on a scenario like The Pit anymore, while still allowing a strong scenario game. Still not sure if I like the random amount of turns though.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Mar 17, 2017 19:14:27 GMT
I think that's the only part that seems to grate against people from what has been revealed. Everything else seems to be positive. I'm reserving judgment on that one aspect until I can see the rules.
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Post by Morganstern on Mar 17, 2017 19:42:43 GMT
Actually a greater focus on attrition would be disastrous for Cryx. Outside of The Ghost Fleet Cryx's attrition game is pretty mediocre. I've found by and large Mark3 Cryx relies on tempo, pushing hard for scenario and forcing my opponent to come forward with their caster hopefully opening up a path to assassination. Either they come forward to attrition me out and I can go for the assassination run, or they play cautiously and I can bully out a quick scenario win. Typically though assassination is how must of my games end. If scenarios are less live, and attrition becomes the main path to victory Cryx is going to struggle hard in its current state. Ghost Fleet aside, Cryx's units and jacks do not have enough staying power to play a long game unless your opponent messes up and you get an absurd alpha off that cripples them completely. Sorry if I wasn't totally clear on that, and I must also admit that I don't play against Cryx much anymore so it's harder to say. My understanding on this is that: 1) Some lists like Ghost Fleet will push hard on attrition with recursion, while others will edge out in matchups where your attrition game is indeed pretty mediocre but the opponent's is worse, especially with your debuffs factored in. 2) While other factions will use attrition to grind out a scenario win because you don't have anything left that can crack heavy armor etc, Cryx will use it to tear an opening for an assassination run. Of course, with a little finesse, you can leverage the ability to do that a turn earlier than say, Borka. We might even see things like Denny 1 with five arc nodes again. 3) Your mobility and ability to focus fire could still allow you to pull off a win by 6 every now and then, but not even Haley 2 will call that plan A very often, so don't sweat that. Wow you really haven't played against Cryx much in MK3. We can't really do any of that well anymore.
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