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Post by h4ppynz on Sept 6, 2017 0:11:39 GMT
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Post by auraco on Sept 6, 2017 0:25:10 GMT
It's mostly a quality of life change simply to not have to remember the different command value, the two extra leadwrship is good but not major for her.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 6, 2017 2:16:36 GMT
It's mostly a quality of life change simply to not have to remember the different command value, the two extra leadwrship is good but not major for her. Makes order of activation even more of a hassle. Better be able to activate something last that can kill her after you try to kill something in the 21.5 inch bubble.
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Post by auraco on Sept 6, 2017 3:43:03 GMT
Yup that too, the list I ran for my CID game is the following Legion of steel Strakhov2 Maraudeur Juggernaut Full Ulhan Full Ulhan Full Regular Fang + CA Great bears Markov Sofya IFK IFK So all the the countercharging iron fang I can get, minimum battlegroup, but with the spd of the list the battlegroup never does anything meaningfull before turn 3, and usually it's one of the jacks kills and objective and I win the game by scenario. With the Ulhan and the advance move on the pikemen you can get very far on turn one, Quicken usually goes on the pikemen and get cycled on turn two since Strakhov doesn't have anything meaningfull to do with his focus, it allows for a lot of good charges and the unit with inviolable resolve is there as an anchor for the list. Strakhov usually use the reposition battleplan on turn one to set up his upkeeps and keep up with the rest of the list.
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Post by skathrex on Sept 6, 2017 12:00:49 GMT
Yup that too, the list I ran for my CID game is the following Legion of steel Strakhov2 Maraudeur Juggernaut Full Ulhan Full Ulhan Full Regular Fang + CA Great bears Markov Sofya IFK IFK So all the the countercharging iron fang I can get, minimum battlegroup, but with the spd of the list the battlegroup never does anything meaningfull before turn 3, and usually it's one of the jacks kills and objective and I win the game by scenario. With the Ulhan and the advance move on the pikemen you can get very far on turn one, Quicken usually goes on the pikemen and get cycled on turn two since Strakhov doesn't have anything meaningfull to do with his focus, it allows for a lot of good charges and the unit with inviolable resolve is there as an anchor for the list. Strakhov usually use the reposition battleplan on turn one to set up his upkeeps and keep up with the rest of the list. Interesting. Ever since I saw someone play Vlad3 double Uhlans a lot I see more and more of lists with double Uhlans. Is it the speed or the survivability? Because in mixed lists I always found them somewhat lacking. Also I think I would cut 1 Kovnik in your list to change the BG to double Kodiak or Jugger and Destroyer. Either having a bit of rng game or Jacks that can keep up a bit more
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Sept 7, 2017 0:29:43 GMT
Yup that too, the list I ran for my CID game is the following Legion of steel Strakhov2 Maraudeur Juggernaut Full Ulhan Full Ulhan Full Regular Fang + CA Great bears Markov Sofya IFK IFK So all the the countercharging iron fang I can get, minimum battlegroup, but with the spd of the list the battlegroup never does anything meaningfull before turn 3, and usually it's one of the jacks kills and objective and I win the game by scenario. With the Ulhan and the advance move on the pikemen you can get very far on turn one, Quicken usually goes on the pikemen and get cycled on turn two since Strakhov doesn't have anything meaningfull to do with his focus, it allows for a lot of good charges and the unit with inviolable resolve is there as an anchor for the list. Strakhov usually use the reposition battleplan on turn one to set up his upkeeps and keep up with the rest of the list. Interesting. Ever since I saw someone play Vlad3 double Uhlans a lot I see more and more of lists with double Uhlans. Is it the speed or the survivability? Because in mixed lists I always found them somewhat lacking. Also I think I would cut 1 Kovnik in your list to change the BG to double Kodiak or Jugger and Destroyer. Either having a bit of rng game or Jacks that can keep up a bit more I have really been liking the double Uhlans and hopefully, if you read my reports, you can see them put to good use. I have found putting Inviolable Resolve on the lead unit and having them B2B for ARM 21, with the 2nd unit Quickened behind them has made for an effective leap frogging threat. On Feat turn, the IR unit is usually Jamming something at ARM 24, with the Quickened unit either going off to score something or Flank hard. When it works just right it is glorious!
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Post by auraco on Sept 7, 2017 3:27:26 GMT
Yup that too, the list I ran for my CID game is the following Legion of steel Strakhov2 Maraudeur Juggernaut Full Ulhan Full Ulhan Full Regular Fang + CA Great bears Markov Sofya IFK IFK So all the the countercharging iron fang I can get, minimum battlegroup, but with the spd of the list the battlegroup never does anything meaningfull before turn 3, and usually it's one of the jacks kills and objective and I win the game by scenario. With the Ulhan and the advance move on the pikemen you can get very far on turn one, Quicken usually goes on the pikemen and get cycled on turn two since Strakhov doesn't have anything meaningfull to do with his focus, it allows for a lot of good charges and the unit with inviolable resolve is there as an anchor for the list. Strakhov usually use the reposition battleplan on turn one to set up his upkeeps and keep up with the rest of the list. Interesting. Ever since I saw someone play Vlad3 double Uhlans a lot I see more and more of lists with double Uhlans. Is it the speed or the survivability? Because in mixed lists I always found them somewhat lacking. Also I think I would cut 1 Kovnik in your list to change the BG to double Kodiak or Jugger and Destroyer. Either having a bit of rng game or Jacks that can keep up a bit more My old setup had a kodiak and a juggernaut, but even with heavy boiler the kodiak is just to slow compared to the rest of the list to do anything meaninfull before turn 3 or 4, so I'm not convinced losing one countercharging model is worth it. Also for the shooting, on turn two everything is usually already engaged in melee so I'm also not convinced by the destroyer. I tried the double ulhan list after reading Growl's battle reports and I quite like the list. I wasn't sure about a double ulhan build with Strakhov2 when I read his card, because I don't like the idea of losing ulhans to last stand, but in 8 games with Strakhov2 in legion of steel I only ended up casting last stand once and it was on a unit of great bears, the scenario presence of that list just makes last stand irrelevant when you can just jam your opponent out of the scenario zones with feated ulhans. I like how ulhans are easier to keep alive than pikemen, less vulnerable to fire, corrosion, snipers, puncture, all the stuff that usually deals with infantry. I also like how they keep their high armor even when charging. Pikemen after a charge have quite the victim stats, ulhans can easily stay at arm 19 thanks to reposition. Add in Strakhov's feat and they become very hard to remove even for heavies. The downside is that it is a very binary list, you either have a great match up and really crush your opponent or have a terrible match up and lose terribly. But when playing in the right match up it is one heck of a strong list.
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Post by sand20go on Sept 7, 2017 3:47:27 GMT
Interesting. Ever since I saw someone play Vlad3 double Uhlans a lot I see more and more of lists with double Uhlans. Is it the speed or the survivability? Because in mixed lists I always found them somewhat lacking. Also I think I would cut 1 Kovnik in your list to change the BG to double Kodiak or Jugger and Destroyer. Either having a bit of rng game or Jacks that can keep up a bit more My old setup had a kodiak and a juggernaut, but even with heavy boiler the kodiak is just to slow compared to the rest of the list to do anything meaninfull before turn 3 or 4, so I'm not convinced losing one countercharging model is worth it. Also for the shooting, on turn two everything is usually already engaged in melee so I'm also not convinced by the destroyer. I tried the double ulhan list after reading Growl 's battle reports and I quite like the list. I wasn't sure about a double ulhan build with Strakhov2 when I read his card, because I don't like the idea of losing ulhans to last stand, but in 8 games with Strakhov2 in legion of steel I only ended up casting last stand once and it was on a unit of great bears, the scenario presence of that list just makes last stand irrelevant when you can just jam your opponent out of the scenario zones with feated ulhans. I like how ulhans are easier to keep alive than pikemen, less vulnerable to fire, corrosion, snipers, puncture, all the stuff that usually deals with infantry. I also like how they keep their high armor even when charging. Pikemen after a charge have quite the victim stats, ulhans can easily stay at arm 19 thanks to reposition. Add in Strakhov's feat and they become very hard to remove even for heavies. The downside is that it is a very binary list, you either have a great match up and really crush your opponent or have a terrible match up and lose terribly. But when playing in the right match up it is one heck of a strong list. What do you think it is bad into? I am really trying to figure out my second pair for the winter with my vlad2 list. I LOVE that list and it works as an all comer really well but I feel that I could really make things sing with the right second. At present it is B3 in WGI theme for taking out ghost fleet/other things that don't want to see silence of death.
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Post by Cryptix on Sept 7, 2017 3:52:43 GMT
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Post by auraco on Sept 7, 2017 12:51:25 GMT
sand20go I think it's a list that doesn't like to be outnumbered. I played it once in cephalyx and wow is that a bad match up, hex blast to remove inviolable resolve, the feat to get all your models out of B2B and a lot of dudes that hit hard enough to kill your stuff. I won that game by chance because of an opponent mistake and that was back in SR 2016 when it was easier to win by scenario, it's not a match up I would want to try again anytime soon. It also doesn't do very well against that immortal theme force in skorne. That was my one defeat with the list, incorporeal immortals got to me on Zaal1 feat turn, it didn't end well for Strakhov even though he was camping and on his feat turn. I also think it wouldn't do very well against that houseguard theme in ret, it's outthreathed and outnumbered by guys that can kill our guys without problem. It would probably have a problem with lists that do attrition very well like Harbinger in the exemplar theme, since the list doesn't have much shooting Harby is pretty much free to martyrdom all game without any fear for her safety. I don't think it would do well against any circle list with double woldwyrd since Strakhov's gameplan rely on his upkeep and purgation is big against him. A kruger2 list with 2 woldwyrd would probably completely trash that list, especially since Kruger2 has Rebuke. Any list with a lot of anatomical precision or any auto damage point ability, although that is mitigated by fielding two units of ulhans, still not sure about it's odds against a kayazy heavy jaws list, that flameguard theme in menoth with the daughters of the flame, the trencher theme in cygnar if they field the commandoes, that upcomming paingivers theme force in skorne. It also lack magic attack so cryx and any dark menagerie list in grymkin will completelly shut down scenario for you with their incorporeal models and since it's a scenario list that doesn't do attrition so well I don't like it's odds against that. I think that covers it, so far, from both experience and theory. So since at least 3 faction have an easy time against it (circle, cryx and grymkin) I do think it has some bad match ups, fairly bad ones at that, but against the rest it is a very potent list, you just need to know that and have your other list cover these bad match ups. Currently we don't really have a solution against grymkin and their gremlin swarms but with the mercenaries being allowed in more and more theme forces I don't think it will stay a problem, just take ayana&holt in a winterguard kommand list and it should do fine against Grymkin and cryx. My B3 list is just waiting for mercs to be allowed in the list to replace the widowmakers by ayana & holt. Old witch in Wolves of Winter will also do well, but that's not officially released yet and I don't think having two melee dudespam list is that great of an idea either. So yeah that's my take on it, I'll keep playing the list and try to find the different match ups where it works and doesn't work. There might be some bad match ups that I missed.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Sept 7, 2017 21:55:37 GMT
Uhlans improve the infantry matchup quite well by providing longer threat than most melee infantry and a good number of attacks via impacts.
My main problem with LegoS currently is jack selection. Can't find a way to use those caster points well, melee jacks are too slow, shooting jacks at 16+ cost too much. Will probably end up with 2xDestroyer, but that still seems suboptimal.
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Post by auraco on Sept 8, 2017 12:02:27 GMT
Yeah my jacks in legion of steel mostly kill objective on turn3 and score on the jack zone on your side of the board, that's about it... if they get to do something else it means you haven't win on scenario yet and it doesn't bode well for you.
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Post by welshhoppo on Sept 8, 2017 12:07:33 GMT
I'm actually amazed that she is getting better each week.
And I feel the same with the Legion of steel.
With Strakhov2, I enjoy a Destroyer and a Devastator. The clam just holds zones, the destroyer pegs annoying solos.
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Post by Havock on Sept 8, 2017 13:39:12 GMT
I like Conquest in Legion of Steel: It offers solid ranged firepower and you can against certain matchups do the whole "Pikemen do the whole Tenno Heika Banzai thing" and kill the things that can threaten Big C.
That and he can be the biggest bait.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Sept 8, 2017 14:03:23 GMT
Conquest is the best choice for it's points I think, but you play a down a unit with it.
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