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Post by rezfon on Sept 4, 2017 15:30:47 GMT
So while I was questioning certain rules with a friend to do with wolf lord M, whether you could trigger the cleave with the mount impact attack as the cleave rule is on the model not the weapon, my friend found a PP thread where someone was questioning a similar interaction for cygnar. From this we worked out a different interaction. This other interaction however seemed far more powerful, possibly a crazier version of storm lances. Krueger 1 and lightning tendrils with cavalry. So say you give a cavalry model lightning tendrils, that makes all the melee weapons of the model 2" and electro leap. Mount attacks count as melee weapons (see infernal ruling privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?260503-Can-you-buy-mount-attacks-with-Fury-Focus&p=3688068#post3688068). Impact attacks are vs all models in the mounts melee range. That range is now 2". So let's use morraig as an example with lightning tendrils. He charges a unit of infantry, he impacts the first guy in the unit. His mounts new melee range is 2", so it manages to catch 5 models in range. His high MAT manages to make him hit all 5, which then proc 5 electro leaps. He then gets into range of his charge target if he doesnt kills it with impact, gets electroleap, then cleaves then electro leaps again. So that turn he's had 7 melee attacks and 7 electro leaps. Now what if we added that to a unit people tend to bash, say wolf riders? Has anyone tried this combo? Was it as good as it sounds?
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Post by jisidro on Sept 4, 2017 16:01:15 GMT
If he charges a shield Wall unit perhaps that is true... In efect you're taking under-performing models in order to add a bit of threat and e-leaps...
I can see the Wolfriders who go up to DEF 17 and threat 14"... problem is they won't kill a lot of stuff on the other end of the charge.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 4, 2017 16:06:03 GMT
There is a lot of potential for that interaction. The issue is, unlike Cygnar, we lack much of a way to increase the Pow of e-leaps.
It's a cool gimmick. I would consider trying it with a min unit of Calvary to see how potent it is
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Post by rezfon on Sept 4, 2017 17:37:34 GMT
The only way I can think to boost off the top off my head would be to use the storm raptor, but that's range only. I've run bloodweavers + night witch with lightning tendrils to good effect before. The cost per model isn't too different between a 3 man and 5 man sized unit of wolf riders, so I'd probably try what you suggested band run minimum.
Edit: looks like it's range for the attack bonus only, but flat increase for everything on damage. If lightning tendrils also gave the weapons itself damage type electricity as well, that would be amazing.
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Post by gimli on Sept 4, 2017 17:58:51 GMT
As an aside I have been considering running Mist Riders and a Storm Raptor with Krueger1 because of how good Gale Winds is. I might try it in the future.
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Post by Nahualli on Sept 5, 2017 3:19:20 GMT
I will try it this week, will let you know my results.
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Sept 5, 2017 6:08:17 GMT
That is a cool interaction. Thanks! I never thought about that.
That said, I suspect it becomes less effective on the table than in theory. First of all, enemy models tend to be spread out so you cannot catch more than 2-3 with the Impact Attack - or alternatively be in Shield Wall where POW 10 leaps will not kill. There is also the possibility that you will leap onto models already hit by the Impact Attack rather than other models in the unit (although I suppose that will make it more likely that you will kill any models blocking your charge, which could be an advantage).
And Wolf Riders with Krueger1 sounds good into Nemo3 (who seems to be back after the Haley2 nerf) and dudespam (Ghost Fleet). I hope your approaches work because I have been looking for a good Storm Raptor list.
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Post by rezfon on Sept 5, 2017 9:13:15 GMT
That is a cool interaction. Thanks! I never thought about that. That said, I suspect it becomes less effective on the table than in theory. First of all, enemy models tend to be spread out so you cannot catch more than 2-3 with the Impact Attack - or alternatively be in Shield Wall where POW 10 leaps will not kill. There is also the possibility that you will leap onto models already hit by the Impact Attack rather than other models in the unit (although I suppose that will make it more likely that you will kill any models blocking your charge, which could be an advantage). And Wolf Riders with Krueger1 sounds good into Nemo3 (who seems to be back after the Haley2 nerf) and dudespam (Ghost Fleet). I hope your approaches work because I have been looking for a good Storm Raptor list. I've done a few test scenario's and noticed a few things. Hitting more than 3 models with at least 1 model wasn't really that difficult considering the base is 50mm and 2" reach. That's basically a 6" AOE. The biggest downside was electroleaping to models already being impacted or electroleaped. A charge would on average tend to hit two more models not already being hit as everything else hits existing targets.as everything is simultaneous. In the event of charging a clump of 3, you would impact all 3, 1 of them would get hit by electroleap twice, the other once and one of them none. In that scenario it would be good for making sure you clear the actual impact model so you can continue the charge movement. The biggest issue I see is actually the storm raptor positioning. To get the animus to take effect, the enemy model being hit by the leap needs to be within cmd range, which is 7 for the raptor and 8 for Krueger. So if you can't get a worthwhile charge off with the storm raptor then range becomes an issue. The fact the animus costs 2 as well hurts. That means you could get animus, charge then buy 1 and you'd be capped for fury unless you had a free charge, at which point you can't run something like devourers host. The electric response to melee attacks is practically useless vs beasts and warjacks, so it's leaving the raptor fairly vulnerable. This is where kromac2 is good as he can give free animus + 2 mat. A razorwing griffon can help I think, use amuck on the raptor to give boosted attack on a sweep with critical disruption.
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Post by Nahualli on Sept 5, 2017 15:11:11 GMT
Have to confirm, but I believe critical disruption does not apply on a sweep, only on basic melee attacks.
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Post by rezfon on Sept 5, 2017 15:20:04 GMT
Have to confirm, but I believe critical disruption does not apply on a sweep, only on basic melee attacks. Aye, I derped, it's a power attack so will ignore disruption.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 7, 2017 12:16:58 GMT
Have to confirm, but I believe critical disruption does not apply on a sweep, only on basic melee attacks. This is correct
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Post by Nahualli on Sept 7, 2017 14:05:21 GMT
Ok guys, I did a test run of the Krueger1 - Riders combo yesterday, this is the list I used:
Krueger1 - Secret Masters Theme Woldwarden x 2 Woldwatcher Una 1 Storm Raptor Druid Mist Riders Max Farrow Bone Grinders Shifting Stones x2 Stone Shaper x2
I played against Thyra with double cavalry and double daughters, one unit ambushing, and a melee unit. Short story is that I received the alpha due, on my turn I couldn't shoot or charge at anything (Occultation on the cavalry, daughters are stealthy). My plan was to position the raptor to use Sky Fire and have my first charge, but on my opponent's turn everything died haha. Bad tactics on my side, sorry guys.
I will try a modified version of the list later, but my current feelings is that this is just a cute list, not a strong one. If you are looking for a fun game, its appropriate, but I wouldn't bring it to a tournament.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 7, 2017 14:08:23 GMT
Ok guys, I did a test run of the Krueger1 - Riders combo yesterday, this is the list I used: Krueger1 - Secret Masters Theme Woldwarden x 2 Woldwatcher Una 1 Storm Raptor Druid Mist Riders Max Farrow Bone Grinders Shifting Stones x2 Stone Shaper x2 I played against Thyra with double cavalry and double daughters, one unit ambushing, and a melee unit. Short story is that I received the alpha due, on my turn I couldn't shoot or charge at anything (Occultation on the cavalry, daughters are stealthy). My plan was to position the raptor to use Sky Fire and have my first charge, but on my opponent's turn everything died haha. Bad tactics on my side, sorry guys. I will try a modified version of the list later, but my current feelings is that this is just a cute list, not a strong one. If you are looking for a fun game, its appropriate, but I wouldn't bring it to a tournament. it also does not help that Thyra with the Death Ponies out-threatens most of our stuff (another issue with secret masters *grumble grumble*)
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Post by Nahualli on Sept 7, 2017 14:14:46 GMT
Haha yeah. But I could have done so much better. I had the opportunity to run with the druids and just chain lightning on their backs, killing a few models. My other big mistake was not feating on first turn. I received the alpha of the whole army.
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Post by rezfon on Sept 7, 2017 14:20:38 GMT
Ok guys, I did a test run of the Krueger1 - Riders combo yesterday, this is the list I used: Krueger1 - Secret Masters Theme Woldwarden x 2 Woldwatcher Una 1 Storm Raptor Druid Mist Riders Max Farrow Bone Grinders Shifting Stones x2 Stone Shaper x2 I played against Thyra with double cavalry and double daughters, one unit ambushing, and a melee unit. Short story is that I received the alpha due, on my turn I couldn't shoot or charge at anything (Occultation on the cavalry, daughters are stealthy). My plan was to position the raptor to use Sky Fire and have my first charge, but on my opponent's turn everything died haha. Bad tactics on my side, sorry guys. I will try a modified version of the list later, but my current feelings is that this is just a cute list, not a strong one. If you are looking for a fun game, its appropriate, but I wouldn't bring it to a tournament. it also does not help that Thyra with the Death Ponies out-threatens most of our stuff (another issue with secret masters *grumble grumble*) I agree, secret masters is just completely lackluster. I'd be tempted to run this list to try if I had the models and wasn't spending each game I play practicing for the Masters event coming up: Theme: The Devourer's Host Krueger the Stormwrath - Storm Raptor - Feral Warpwolf Tharn Ravager White Mane Tharn Wolf Riders - Leader & 2 Grunts Tharn Ravagers - Leader & 5 Grunts - Tharn Ravager Chieftain Tharn Bloodtrackers - Leader & 9 Grunts - Nuala the Huntress
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