|
Post by Swampmist on Oct 19, 2017 1:09:14 GMT
Iirc in MK2 they were pow 12 or 13. Also, I think the castersd (read: harby) may have liked them better
|
|
|
Post by Azuresun on Oct 19, 2017 9:34:09 GMT
Weren't they good/okay in Mk2? I don't recall their offense being affected during the transition to Mk3. Maybe a drop is POW, I don't think that is significant enough to ruin the unit. Heavy infantry were everywhere in Mk2 because almost nobody could use multiple jacks. These days, you get more offence and about the same amount of durability with cheap jacks. This also means that boosted guns that can one-shot a heavy infantry model are much more common--so most of the time, it's better to take light infantry with the same effective durability.
|
|
spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
|
Post by spideredd on Oct 19, 2017 11:15:07 GMT
The sanguine bond fix does help them, but they have other issues to overcome as well in my opinion. Weren't they good/okay in Mk2? I don't recall their offense being affected during the transition to Mk3. Maybe a drop is POW, I don't think that is significant enough to ruin the unit. They were alright in MKII. I could never quite get them to work, (I didn't have Vindictus or Harbinger) but I felt it was worth trying. In the transition, they lost POW, boxes and range on Sanguine Bond. In MKIII, I've actually had a hard time getting them to do anything worthwhile that I couldn't do with Knights Exemplar more reliably. Part of the problem is that they don't get to the frontline. Their armour is too low and they are too slow. I don't see their speed being addressed, but their armour might. The other part of their problem is that when they get there, they don't have enough attacks and the ones that they do have don't hit hard enough. So they fail at threshing troops and we have better armour crackers that are cheaper (Knights Exemplar), or slightly more expensive but faster (Exemplar Vengers). Even Cinnerators do the same job a little better, vengence helps speed and attack volume and higher pow helps armour cracking, and fire immunity helps their survivablity in a small way. Bastions can't even fall back on their theme because they share a theme with both options.
|
|
demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
|
Post by demonic on Oct 20, 2017 0:22:16 GMT
You'll probably see some of the better Menoth players fielding 1 list with 1 batch in exemplar interdiction. When you combine it with the senachal and the battle engine, they have staying power that outweighs right out damage. They'll be used as contest models for scenario purposes, where their job is to just stay still and score zones or keep the opponent from scoring zones. Them dying doesn't really matter much, as long as there is 1 left in the zone by the end of your opponent's turn.
In major tournaments, winning by assassination when you're sitting on 0 scenario points is worth about the same amount as a loss. Winners are determined by, first, who has the most wins, and then by how many scenario points you've taken. In a major tournament where there can be 50-60 players, it's not rare for there to be several players with no losses. Instead of making them all play each other to determine rank, they use scenario point totals. 1 game with zero points scored secures you a spot at the bottom of the winners list, which is generally 7th or 6th place. You might get a best faction award, but you won't even place on the tournament level.
|
|
regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
|
Post by regleant on Oct 20, 2017 2:23:06 GMT
Demonic - I believe per SR rules that Strength of Schedule is the next tie breaker, before CP's. Do they do things differently in your part of the world?
|
|
demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
|
Post by demonic on Oct 20, 2017 5:11:27 GMT
look at how tournament points are scored: win/loss/tie, scenario points, army points destroyed. After that is calculated together, tie breakers are determined by Strength of Schedule, or how well your opponents scored during the entire competition. After that, scenario points are used once again.
What I was referring to is the total tournament points, not the final tie breaker.
edit: on that note, I can see how my previous post could have been really confusing. How many tournament points you get for what objectives you complete to get your total points. Victory tends to be worth the most, but not scoring scenario points with it can kill your end game score.
|
|
moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
|
Post by moquan on Oct 20, 2017 7:10:42 GMT
demonicA win by assassination is always worth more than a loss. I don't care about tiebreaker points if I can win the round. Concerning Bastions, in mk2 they were good with HR1. Ath the moment I'm looking into a list with Harby, Vessel and the Seneschal. Martyr and heal for D3+1 seems good with the bond being adjusted. Theme bonus and crusaders call helps them up the field.
|
|
|
Post by govinator on Oct 20, 2017 15:59:26 GMT
So I am thinking about dressing up my revelator (whenever I get it) somewhat, but I'm not sure how. How have you guys made customizations to your colossals? My Judicator has Haley 2 in one hand and pDenny in the other hand, and it looks like he's playing with miniatures of his own. A friend of mine put his Judicator on a bed of dirt with a flattened Denegrha sitting out from under his foot.
Kinda looking for some fun inspiration for what to do with a Revelator, and would love some ideas.
|
|
|
Post by chillychinaman on Oct 20, 2017 16:23:08 GMT
So I am thinking about dressing up my revelator (whenever I get it) somewhat, but I'm not sure how. How have you guys made customizations to your colossals? My Judicator has Haley 2 in one hand and pDenny in the other hand, and it looks like he's playing with miniatures of his own. A friend of mine put his Judicator on a bed of dirt with a flattened Denegrha sitting out from under his foot. Kinda looking for some fun inspiration for what to do with a Revelator, and would love some ideas. Since you already have a Judicator, you can safely lock in the Revelator, so I suggest having it holding your enemy caster of choice in front of its conflagrator cannon ready to get toasted.
|
|
|
Post by govinator on Oct 20, 2017 16:57:01 GMT
We tried doing something similar with Denny1, holding her in one hand and having the judicator spraying fire from the other. Turns out the green stuff was a pain in the butt to sculpt into anything that looked decent, so we didn't go with it.
Someone in my gaming group mentioned maybe have him tearing apart a skin and moans, since those models have to be put together at the waist. I was thinking maybe having him stomp on The Heretic (arm outstretched with his silly little mask) and ripping apart the skin and moans could be fun.
|
|
|
Post by chillychinaman on Oct 20, 2017 17:07:51 GMT
At least the Revelator would be a bit easier, I think, since it would only need to raise its arm a bit to be right in front of the cannon.
I do like the Heretic idea though, maybe do it right when its fist makes contact for a punch. I think an uppercut would work nicely to avoid having to have the Revelator crouch down.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Oct 20, 2017 17:09:06 GMT
We tried doing something similar with Denny1, holding her in one hand and having the judicator spraying fire from the other. Turns out the green stuff was a pain in the butt to sculpt into anything that looked decent, so we didn't go with it. Someone in my gaming group mentioned maybe have him tearing apart a skin and moans, since those models have to be put together at the waist. I was thinking maybe having him stomp on The Heretic (arm outstretched with his silly little mask) and ripping apart the skin and moans could be fun. You could have the revelator holding up and shooting the egrigore from the witch coven, engulfing it in flames and then have all the witches around the base in various stages of being conflagorated because the egrigore is a jerk and makes them suffer damage for it. That would pretty cool looking.
|
|
demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
|
Post by demonic on Oct 20, 2017 23:55:45 GMT
mm yeah, I'm a lot better at coming up for stuff like that for horde beasts than I am for warjacks. Nothing quite as fun as making it look like the skorne's hydra ripped appart a character jack or impaling the body of a majorly hated caster into the claws of a warpwolf. Grimkin models would probably be the most interesting for alterations, considering that a lot of them use corpse tokens Models that are stitched together from corpses can also be made cleverly. As for us, I think focusing on the model instead of including outside models would probably be more interesting, like putting a rainbow unicorn on his cannon and announcing you're going to kill your opponents with the power of "love & friendship"
|
|
Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
|
Post by Fire Step on Oct 28, 2017 17:31:58 GMT
Warjacks are a lot easier to manipulate though, simply based on the fact there isn't skin folds and muscle to manipulate - just cut them up at the joint and you can almost repose them in any way you like. The best conversions/alterations I have seen of warmachine was done by a chap on the privateer press forums before the great nuking earlier this year (see attachment). Overall I am having a blast with protectorate. I had a wobbly re-start early this year when I picked them up again and was trying to work out exactly what was effective (Feora2 in some weird Creator's might list was not particularly good) but now I'm back onto a bit of a roll, especially having picked up both types of cav really cheap - having not used them at all before they are awesome. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by charlzheimer on Oct 29, 2017 17:58:56 GMT
Warjacks are a lot easier to manipulate though, simply based on the fact there isn't skin folds and muscle to manipulate - just cut them up at the joint and you can almost repose them in any way you like. The best conversions/alterations I have seen of warmachine was done by a chap on the privateer press forums before the great nuking earlier this year (see attachment). Overall I am having a blast with protectorate. I had a wobbly re-start early this year when I picked them up again and was trying to work out exactly what was effective (Feora2 in some weird Creator's might list was not particularly good) but now I'm back onto a bit of a roll, especially having picked up both types of cav really cheap - having not used them at all before they are awesome. thomas makes amazing custom khador mods yeah. and while he incorperates hordes stuff...its limited compared to his customizing in warjacks. see link below for examples. www.beastsofwar.com/groups/painting/forum/topic/blood-gore-and-a-big-stompy-robot/?_wpnonce=b44ad45efc#post-218075
|
|