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Post by bskhacker on Sept 24, 2017 21:13:29 GMT
the saggy/bendy/damaged legs might not be as much of a problem if PP didn't insist on posing every horse with only 2 hooves on the ground. Still, nothing I've seen in all of minigaming is quite as bad as harbinger's flag. I have yet to fix that stupid flag. I even tried replacing the dumb rectangular flag with a rod when it first broke, but messed up the hand when doing it so she basically is floating there handless and flagless for the last year My plan with her is to clip the flag and put a shield in her hand. So no flag dipping and a bit of an easier fit in my bag.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Sept 24, 2017 21:27:54 GMT
mmm if I was deciding a full team, I'd probably go Khador, Cygnar, Cryx, Protectorate, then either circle or Merc/Minion. Khador is difficult for a lot of factions to deal with, yet those that can deal with them with more ease tend to be full of holes. Cygnar is just OP for any slow moving force or forces that rely on defense. Cryx's tricks are a necessity for the easy wins, even if there are some people who can trail blaze them. Protectorate's magical weapons, negations, and fire spams are ideal for countering tricky forces, even if we fall flat to sheer power; since tricky foes are always going to be in every 5 player list, it's best to have at least 1 full negater for them. Circle's high defense and mixture of guerrilla warfare make them great for shaking up the majority of factions, but merc/minion gives you the big time advantage of having such a LARGE line of models to choose from that no one can really make a solid list to counter them.
As for the lists that were played, GoT Thyra + Amon Dervish spam is one nasty combo. Think about trying to piece trade the dervish list without leaving an assassination lane open and then a Thyra list with surprise attack daughters? *shudders* Kreoss1 and Vindi I think overlap some, but the fact that they went gunline with kreoss1 and Knights with Vindi opened it up a bit.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Sept 25, 2017 8:41:12 GMT
mmm if I was deciding a full team, I'd probably go Khador, Cygnar, Cryx, Protectorate, then either circle or Merc/Minion. Khador is difficult for a lot of factions to deal with, yet those that can deal with them with more ease tend to be full of holes. Cygnar is just OP for any slow moving force or forces that rely on defense. Cryx's tricks are a necessity for the easy wins, even if there are some people who can trail blaze them. Protectorate's magical weapons, negations, and fire spams are ideal for countering tricky forces, even if we fall flat to sheer power; since tricky foes are always going to be in every 5 player list, it's best to have at least 1 full negater for them. Circle's high defense and mixture of guerrilla warfare make them great for shaking up the majority of factions, but merc/minion gives you the big time advantage of having such a LARGE line of models to choose from that no one can really make a solid list to counter them. As for the lists that were played, GoT Thyra + Amon Dervish spam is one nasty combo. Think about trying to piece trade the dervish list without leaving an assassination lane open and then a Thyra list with surprise attack daughters? *shudders* Kreoss1 and Vindi I think overlap some, but the fact that they went gunline with kreoss1 and Knights with Vindi opened it up a bit. The thing that Thyra (GoT), Amon (CW), and Vindictus (EI) all have in common is an absolutely unavoidable burst of speed and are all very likely to get the alpha strike if played properly. Not all of them can crack armour (Thyra) but when you have ambushing Daughters and speed 9 (!) Flame bringers circling the enemy flanks I'm not sure it matters. Just ignoring the jacks and killing all the infantry and support can be crippling to the enemy, especially when you can reposition and side step out of reach. Speed is actually not what protectorate is known for, and it's interesting that the lists with most success have swung this way.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Sept 25, 2017 9:08:46 GMT
Yeah, speed kills in SR2017. Forget slow gunlines with few models in Protectorate, no matter how much firepower they have. Creator's Might without SPD buffs is so dead in my opinion. I wonder if Sevvy2 (so SR2016!) results from WTC will show if this feeling of mine is true.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Sept 25, 2017 11:44:11 GMT
Yeah, speed kills in SR2017. Forget slow gunlines with few models in Protectorate, no matter how much firepower they have. Creator's Might without SPD buffs is so dead in my opinion. I wonder if Sevvy2 (so SR2016!) results from WTC will show if this feeling of mine is true. This is part of the reason I dropped my sevvy 2 list like a brick. It's a list that revolves around speed 4 models, and simply can't get into zones without running for two turns. The second turn is generally the turn you want your models (especially the vessel of judgement) to be using special abilities, not just blindly running up the table and into threat. Unfortunately outside of Reznik 1, we don't really have a caster who can tick all the boxes for creators might except amon. And the problem with reznik 1 is... Well he's reznik 1. It's really tragic for casters like Tristan2 and Durst who are desperate to either get into melee or into a strong defensive position mid board, but they simply don't have the speed to do it.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 25, 2017 12:09:19 GMT
Yeah, speed kills in SR2017. Forget slow gunlines with few models in Protectorate, no matter how much firepower they have. Creator's Might without SPD buffs is so dead in my opinion. I wonder if Sevvy2 (so SR2016!) results from WTC will show if this feeling of mine is true. This is part of the reason I dropped my sevvy 2 list like a brick. It's a list that revolves around speed 4 models, and simply can't get into zones without running for two turns. The second turn is generally the turn you want your models (especially the vessel of judgement) to be using special abilities, not just blindly running up the table and into threat. Unfortunately outside of Reznik 1, we don't really have a caster who can tick all the boxes for creators might except amon. And the problem with reznik 1 is... Well he's reznik 1. It's really tragic for casters like Tristan2 and Durst who are desperate to either get into melee or into a strong defensive position mid board, but they simply don't have the speed to do it. Hey there, Reznick 1 is actually pretty decent Do not go nocking him Just wait till Faithfull masses comes out Ill show you his true power
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Sept 25, 2017 13:47:21 GMT
This is part of the reason I dropped my sevvy 2 list like a brick. It's a list that revolves around speed 4 models, and simply can't get into zones without running for two turns. The second turn is generally the turn you want your models (especially the vessel of judgement) to be using special abilities, not just blindly running up the table and into threat. Unfortunately outside of Reznik 1, we don't really have a caster who can tick all the boxes for creators might except amon. And the problem with reznik 1 is... Well he's reznik 1. It's really tragic for casters like Tristan2 and Durst who are desperate to either get into melee or into a strong defensive position mid board, but they simply don't have the speed to do it. Hey there, Reznick 1 is actually pretty decent Do not go nocking him Just wait till Faithfull masses comes out Ill show you his true power the post was about creator's ight tho.
This is what PP is going to get for giving us all the jack buffs in infantry themes, and the infantry buff in the jack theme.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 25, 2017 13:50:09 GMT
This is part of the reason I dropped my sevvy 2 list like a brick. It's a list that revolves around speed 4 models, and simply can't get into zones without running for two turns. The second turn is generally the turn you want your models (especially the vessel of judgement) to be using special abilities, not just blindly running up the table and into threat. Unfortunately outside of Reznik 1, we don't really have a caster who can tick all the boxes for creators might except amon. And the problem with reznik 1 is... Well he's reznik 1. It's really tragic for casters like Tristan2 and Durst who are desperate to either get into melee or into a strong defensive position mid board, but they simply don't have the speed to do it. What's wrong with Reznik 1? he looks amazing and I want to get him next as one of my main go-to casters.
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Post by macdaddy on Sept 25, 2017 13:56:46 GMT
This is part of the reason I dropped my sevvy 2 list like a brick. It's a list that revolves around speed 4 models, and simply can't get into zones without running for two turns. The second turn is generally the turn you want your models (especially the vessel of judgement) to be using special abilities, not just blindly running up the table and into threat. Unfortunately outside of Reznik 1, we don't really have a caster who can tick all the boxes for creators might except amon. And the problem with reznik 1 is... Well he's reznik 1. It's really tragic for casters like Tristan2 and Durst who are desperate to either get into melee or into a strong defensive position mid board, but they simply don't have the speed to do it. What's wrong with Reznik 1? he looks amazing and I want to get him next as one of my main go-to casters. His biggest weaknesses are mainly: 1: he wants a big BG but cannot really fuel it and cast his very powerful spells 2: He is not nearly as tanky as he probably should be. If you commit him in any way he will die. These can be fixed in any number of ways. Vassals, hierophants and wracks give him focus assistance and a Vigilant or a devout can up his survivability from ranged assassination. He is a pretty strong caster and can crack just about anything in the game that isn't spell immune with Brand. I love him and have had sucess in Creators might. I run the following and it is a blast: Reznick -Hierophant -Scourge -Crusader -Guardian -2 reckoners -Vanquisher Covenant 2 Vassals 2 Wracks 2 Mechaniks Max Chior It isn't perfect and can't spread out super far but the list hits like a truck and has some really cool threat angles with Perdition. Against certain casters you can typically bait them out for a which hound which the vanquisher or reckoners loves to take advantage of.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Sept 25, 2017 14:31:32 GMT
What's wrong with Reznik 1? he looks amazing and I want to get him next as one of my main go-to casters. In my opinion and experience he's too luck-dependant. His tricks are great when they succeed, but they can easily go wrong and this results in the loss of a costly set-up. Reliablity and abilities that make larger groups of models efficient over bigger areas are IMO a lot more efficient than such high-risk, high-cost surges concentrated on a very narrow front, when the rest of the army has to operate at half efficiency without caster support of any kind. Look at those PoM Norway WTC lists as an example - Amon, Kreoss1, Thyra, Vindictus - all those casters offer great support to everyone in their CTRL. They don't rely on hitting with FOC6 offensive spells to actually offer anything to their army.
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Post by W0lfBane on Sept 25, 2017 14:45:32 GMT
What's wrong with Reznik 1? he looks amazing and I want to get him next as one of my main go-to casters. His biggest weaknesses are mainly: 1: he wants a big BG but cannot really fuel it and cast his very powerful spells 2: He is not nearly as tanky as he probably should be. If you commit him in any way he will die. These can be fixed in any number of ways. Vassals, hierophants and wracks give him focus assistance and a Vigilant or a devout can up his survivability from ranged assassination. He is a pretty strong caster and can crack just about anything in the game that isn't spell immune with Brand. I love him and have had sucess in Creators might. I run the following and it is a blast: Reznick -Hierophant -Scourge -Crusader -Guardian -2 reckoners -Vanquisher Covenant 2 Vassals 2 Wracks 2 Mechaniks Max Chior It isn't perfect and can't spread out super far but the list hits like a truck and has some really cool threat angles with Perdition. Against certain casters you can typically bait them out for a which hound which the vanquisher or reckoners loves to take advantage of. He used to be a lot better when reclaimers used to hand out a butload of focus.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Oct 3, 2017 7:04:09 GMT
I have a small cramp feeling in my printing hand, but I've almost finished off my temple flameguard. Crikey that feels good.
Just got ten flame bringers to do now, as well as blood of martyrs and thyra and I'll almost be up to speed on painted models for lists that I'm after!
Also, played two fun (ie not practice games for steamroller) with Durst. He is actually really fun, and cements in my mind the opinion that even just swapping out caster (but keeping largely the same army) will change 100% how that army actually plays and moves on the table.
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Post by W0lfBane on Oct 3, 2017 11:36:53 GMT
I'm looking forward to playing that hostile territory scenario in NQP
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 3, 2017 12:43:16 GMT
I have a small cramp feeling in my printing hand, but I've almost finished off my temple flameguard. Crikey that feels good. Just got ten flame bringers to do now, as well as blood of martyrs and thyra and I'll almost be up to speed on painted models for lists that I'm after! Also, played two fun (ie not practice games for steamroller) with Durst. He is actually really fun, and cements in my mind the opinion that even just swapping out caster (but keeping largely the same army) will change 100% how that army actually plays and moves on the table. I am getting ready to paint my errants in the "feudal" color scheme. So I expect hand cramps out the wazzoo. But painting all of them different colors and schemes has been an absolute blast and is motivating me to paint. Even if I am not that good at it haha Once I get my exemplar done I am "rewarding" myself by painting jacks. Thinking of giving all the jacks individual heraldry and color schemes as well to "match" the army. Gonna make bonded jacks the same scheme as their bonded caster IE scourge and reznick will be Black red and gold, Eye and Malekus will probably be purple. Gold, and Green. Fun stuff like that. I think my favorite part of the game when teaching new players and watching their armies grow is when they use a new caster with the same army and think its so cool how different their army feels and plays. It is one of the nicer aspects of the game. The list I run for Interdiction is literally the same for every caster (varying on jack points) but it plays so differently with each.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Oct 4, 2017 10:12:48 GMT
I have a small cramp feeling in my printing hand, but I've almost finished off my temple flameguard. Crikey that feels good. Just got ten flame bringers to do now, as well as blood of martyrs and thyra and I'll almost be up to speed on painted models for lists that I'm after! Also, played two fun (ie not practice games for steamroller) with Durst. He is actually really fun, and cements in my mind the opinion that even just swapping out caster (but keeping largely the same army) will change 100% how that army actually plays and moves on the table. I am getting ready to paint my errants in the "feudal" color scheme. So I expect hand cramps out the wazzoo. But painting all of them different colors and schemes has been an absolute blast and is motivating me to paint. Even if I am not that good at it haha Once I get my exemplar done I am "rewarding" myself by painting jacks. Thinking of giving all the jacks individual heraldry and color schemes as well to "match" the army. Gonna make bonded jacks the same scheme as their bonded caster IE scourge and reznick will be Black red and gold, Eye and Malekus will probably be purple. Gold, and Green. Fun stuff like that. I think my favorite part of the game when teaching new players and watching their armies grow is when they use a new caster with the same army and think its so cool how different their army feels and plays. It is one of the nicer aspects of the game. The list I run for Interdiction is literally the same for every caster (varying on jack points) but it plays so differently with each. Interdiction is interesting with Vindictus. So much scenario pressure in the first two turns it's unreal. I'm on a streak of 9 wins to 3 losses with him at the moment. The little excel chart I have for my wins and losses is really skewed because of him, most other casters tend to swing more towards 50/50. I also have the double vengers to try at some point, really looking forward to seeing what makes them tick. I've run a full unit under vindictus last week I'm two games. They did fairly well, but with a full unit behind Knights exemplar they tended to get a bit tangled together. I won both games with the list but it wasn't down to the vengers doing the heavy lifting. Any hints to lists with them from anyone?
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