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Post by gobber on Aug 25, 2017 4:38:50 GMT
While from power perspective I would like to see some Constance being played, her and Gallant supported by the Choir of Menoth is a fluff aberration. I heartily agree. That being said, I am looking forward to the conversion opportunity; it should be pretty easy to clip the "morrowfix" off of the precursor standard bearer, and that part is only 3.50
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Post by mydnight on Aug 25, 2017 6:20:09 GMT
Constance and precursors really need some help. I'll be getting some games in with her this weekend. Maybe I can make a case for her to gain something to help her. Also., it would be nice if precursors were at least 1inch reach... .5 hurts so bad Yes please convince the PP overlords that Precursors and Connie really need a hard look at. Especially given how they negate repositioning ragman.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 25, 2017 11:46:53 GMT
While from power perspective I would like to see some Constance being played, her and Gallant supported by the Choir of Menoth is a fluff aberration. So paint them to look like morrowan priests?
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Aug 25, 2017 12:01:17 GMT
While in a feverish sleep I had a weird idea... is Caine 3 a Gun-mage? I mean the other two were gunmages as part of the black 13th... so I would assume so! Cause if that's the case maybe something like Caine 3 - Ace - Galleon Some sort of combination of -Thorn Gunmages -ATM Gunmages -Gibs -Taryn
You could get 7 sniper shots from Caine's Hellsingers alone! Add in Calamity for Damage buff, all the shadow fire, and still getting a decent number of shots for feat, and this might not be terrible. But only if caine 3 is gun mage material...
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 25, 2017 12:32:23 GMT
While in a feverish sleep I had a weird idea... is Caine 3 a Gun-mage? I mean the other two were gunmages as part of the black 13th... so I would assume so! Cause if that's the case maybe something like Caine 3 - Ace - Galleon Some sort of combination of -Thorn Gunmages -ATM Gunmages -Gibs -Taryn You could get 7 sniper shots from Caine's Hellsingers alone! Add in Calamity for Damage buff, all the shadow fire, and still getting a decent number of shots for feat, and this might not be terrible. But only if caine 3 is gun mage material... Although it is common knowledge that Caine and his unit are gun mages it does not say so on the card
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Aug 25, 2017 13:45:51 GMT
Constance and precursors really need some help. I'll be getting some games in with her this weekend. Maybe I can make a case for her to gain something to help her. Also., it would be nice if precursors were at least 1inch reach... .5 hurts so bad Yes please convince the PP overlords that Precursors and Connie really need a hard look at. Especially given how they negate repositioning ragman. The snark isn't really needed, but ok. If you think they are in an appropriate state it's better to just say so. Not sure how they negate a repositioning Ragman, or even a non repositioning rag man outside of feat. I guess shieldwall is a thing, but by then the precursors are too slow to do much with their .5 reach. How often do you see Constance and Precursors on the other side of the table when you're using Ragman that this is an issue? How often do you see Ragman on the other side of the table (with reposition) when using Constance and/or Precursors that being able to shut down one model puts them in an appropriate place?
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 25, 2017 14:00:58 GMT
I wonder why they lacks Rhulic models and Steelheads. In the fluff they do hire many mercenaries, include dwarfs and Steelheads. In a tournament's short novel the vast majority of 'resistance' soldiers are actually the mercenaries, include Rhulic soldiers. I only see the theme as the jack heavy theme, but hardly see a value since there is little Llealese unit, despite the theme can hire Rhupert Carvolo. Why you need to play the theme if you can play non-theme force list? Constance and precursors really need some help. I'll be getting some games in with her this weekend. Maybe I can make a case for her to gain something to help her. Also., it would be nice if precursors were at least 1inch reach... .5 hurts so bad That's why I rate them bad. 0.5" have no meaning in the current era. It makes Morrow's Name not so effective. There is no merit to deliver them....
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 25, 2017 14:17:23 GMT
Quick Macbain list thrown together...
(MacBain 1) Drake MacBain [+30] - Mangler [15] - Mangler [15] - Mangler [15] Major Harrison Gibbs [0] Ragman [0] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] Captain Sam MacHorne & the Devil Dogs (max) [18] - Mariner [14] Choir of Menoth [6] Thorn Gun Mages [9] Thorn Gun Mages [9]
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Aug 25, 2017 14:48:03 GMT
Its hard for me to explain how disappointed I am in this theme, on both a mechanical and a fluff level.
For fluff, how is it even mildly kosher for Contance and the Precursors to mingle with Menoth Units? Why is Caine even involved? He could not care less about this. No early Magni? Ragman and Harlan Versh? Yes to every Ordic unit except Savio? Gobber tinkers but no Reinholdt? Sgt. Nick but no Steelheads? This is just dumb on its face.
As for the "benefits"? The AoE rubble/Advanced move thing is cool. I like that. It works especially well with the sniper rule, which frankly is a huge waste, as the only person benefiting from both is Taryn, whose rules make her want to be near Rutger Shaw! The new steamroller helps a bit, but 20 points of solos and units to get more solos (especially when the included merc units are not our best) is a kick in the teeth. Play Ashlynn with none of the stuff she synergizes with! Play Constance who is just bad! Play Macbain with no advantage (and significant disadvantage) over playing in Irregulars or Kingmaker! Play Caine who still has no good target and this theme offers him no benefit other than the most insulting one!
This brings me to the last benefit. Get a Menoth or Cygnar unit and it counts as Merc. Wow. So your faction is bad, we don't want to do anything with it, buy a better faction's unit and use one of the partisan casters (Constance with Cygnar, New Gastone with Cygnar OR Menoth, and Caine with Cygnar) and you're halfway to a decent list...that would be better in Cygnar or Menoth. This does NOTHING to enhance Mercs and everything to make Merc players feel like we made the wrong choice and really should have just played Cygnar.
It's rare for me to get legitimately pissed about this game, but to wait this long and be told a legitimate Llaelese theme is coming and get handed this imagination-less ineffective fluffbomination is more than I can take calmly.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Aug 25, 2017 16:12:57 GMT
Its hard for me to explain how disappointed I am in this theme, on both a mechanical and a fluff level. For fluff, how is it even mildly kosher for Contance and the Precursors to mingle with Menoth Units? Why is Caine even involved? He could not care less about this. No early Magni? Ragman and Harlan Versh? Yes to every Ordic unit except Savio? Gobber tinkers but no Reinholdt? Sgt. Nick but no Steelheads? This is just dumb on its face. As for the "benefits"? The AoE rubble/Advanced move thing is cool. I like that. It works especially well with the sniper rule, which frankly is a huge waste, as the only person benefiting from both is Taryn, whose rules make her want to be near Rutger Shaw! The new steamroller helps a bit, but 20 points of solos and units to get more solos (especially when the included merc units are not our best) is a kick in the teeth. Play Ashlynn with none of the stuff she synergizes with! Play Constance who is just bad! Play Macbain with no advantage (and significant disadvantage) over playing in Irregulars or Kingmaker! Play Caine who still has no good target and this theme offers him no benefit other than the most insulting one! This brings me to the last benefit. Get a Menoth or Cygnar unit and it counts as Merc. Wow. So your faction is bad, we don't want to do anything with it, buy a better faction's unit and use one of the partisan casters (Constance with Cygnar, New Gastone with Cygnar OR Menoth, and Caine with Cygnar) and you're halfway to a decent list...that would be better in Cygnar or Menoth. This does NOTHING to enhance Mercs and everything to make Merc players feel like we made the wrong choice and really should have just played Cygnar. It's rare for me to get legitimately pissed about this game, but to wait this long and be told a legitimate Llaelese theme is coming and get handed this imagination-less ineffective fluffbomination is more than I can take calmly. I feel ya on the vast majority of this man... I was hoping for a legit morrowan theme, and I'm getting a sneaking suspicion this is all I'm gonna get... and choir can be converted to look morrowan but you're right... taking another factions units so you can be competitive is kinda... agrivating... hence why I'm not a huge fan of kingmaker, and was not a fan of the highborn contract in mark 2. Still have issues with this.
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Post by sgregorbmmd on Aug 26, 2017 6:28:52 GMT
I feel like I could make more effective and thematic Llaelese lists with Irregulars.
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Post by mcdermott on Aug 26, 2017 20:13:27 GMT
So for those not in the CID what does this llaelese resistance theme look entail?
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Aug 26, 2017 20:43:49 GMT
Don't think it fixes precursors permenatly but would it be worth making one of the "resistance" benefits "precursor knight models gain 1 inch reach and shield guard". I mean it kinda works thematically, and it means that under shield wall they'd be alright shield guards. Add in that if they get jammed up, the can now pop mini feat to help, plus black penny from Thorn Gunamges can get them unstuck. That also means that Constance can get up a little further (as now she has a plethora of shield guards who she can get flank off of). I mean not perfect by any means, but I'd take that benefit over say placing a few pieces of rubble? Maybe not, but tis a thought.
Also to answer your question;
Llaelese Resistance
Army Composition
An army made using this theme force can include only the following Mercenary models:
• Llaelese warcasters
• Caine’s Hellslingers
• Constance Blaize, Knight of the Prophet
• Drake MacBain
• non-character warjacks
• Llaelese models/units
• Captain Sam MacHorne & the Devil Dogs
• Precursor Knight units
• Colbie Sterling, Captain of the BRI
• Gobber Tinker solos
• Harlan Versh, Illuminated One
• Madelyn Corbeau
• Rhupert Carvolo
• Rutger Shaw
Special Rules
• This army can also include up to one small-based non-character Cygnaran or Protectorate unit.
This unit is considered to be a friendly Mercenary unit instead of a Cygnar or Protectorate unit
and can include attachments.
• For every full 20 points of units and solos in this army, you can add one command attachment or
solo to the army free of cost. Free solos do not count toward the total point value of units/solos in
the army when calculating this bonus.
• Gun Mage models in this army gain Sniper. (Instead of making a damage roll to resolve a ranged
attack, a model with Sniper can inflict 1 damage point. A model disabled by a ranged attack
made by a model with Sniper cannot make a Tough roll.)
• Before models are deployed at the start of the game, you can place one 5˝ AOE rubble terrain
features anywhere completely within 18˝ of the rear table edge of your deployment zone. When
you deploy your models you can deploy one solo completely within the AOE.
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Post by mcdermott on Aug 27, 2017 0:45:15 GMT
Hmmm...needs moar llaelese units.
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Post by Sarcastastic on Aug 27, 2017 1:07:58 GMT
I almost feel like this is one of those lists that's being busted out early and was meant for it's own CID cycle, so there might be a Llaelese unit or jack on the way. Like maybe the remnants of the nobility in duelist units, or the Duelist jack finally. On top of that maybe they would look at Ashlynn and Vanguards, as right now they seem to not want to. However, it's in CID now, so maybe I'm just full of it. That tends to happen.
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