Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 13, 2017 13:34:01 GMT
Also, I think there is a lot of validity in the idea that they were planning for new models/themes to have impact on models and left them overcosted for a reason. TAC got the Siege Crawler and a theme, Boomhowlers got feign death and ambush in a theme, and the Cav got...more #designspace
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Post by postindirty on Nov 13, 2017 20:17:22 GMT
Tried Ashlyn last night accompanied by some menoth bros, and holy heck is it awesome. The Vanguards especially, I didn't click at first the number of buffs they get, like benefiting from Veteran Leader and the pathfinder theme benefit alone. Add Choir on top of that and off they went
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Nov 13, 2017 20:34:32 GMT
Tried Ashlyn last night accompanied by some menoth bros, and holy heck is it awesome. The Vanguards especially, I didn't click at first the number of buffs they get, like benefiting from Veteran Leader and the pathfinder theme benefit alone. Add Choir on top of that and off they went What was your list and what did you play against for a point of reference?
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Post by postindirty on Nov 13, 2017 21:14:58 GMT
Ashlyn with 2x Vanguards, 2x Nomads, Gaston with a Mule, Gibbs, Gorman, Ragman, Anastasia, Taryn, Thorn Gun mages, Flamebringers, and max Choir.
Opponent played a Jarl Power of Dhunia list, with Mulg, EBDT, 2x Maulers, Bomber, Kriel stone, Moses, Gobber chef and a ton of whelps. There's was a fair bit of counter play there to my list, with a troll brick and Jarl's feat letting him get the alpha, as well Jarl himself having magic bullet to plink off my solos and choir.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 13, 2017 23:14:14 GMT
Did you find the Vanguards worth it in theme? 1 pt seemed like not enough of a "fix", but with the theme, I have been thinking about trying them out again.
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Post by postindirty on Nov 14, 2017 0:51:21 GMT
I loved them; one, they pick up a bunch of buffs just by being llalese- pathfinder from the theme and veteran leader off Ashlyn. Add in the Choir and their attacks start hitting damn hard. I wasn't expecting it, but they were starting to go toe-to-toe with troll heavies.
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Post by gedditoffme on Nov 14, 2017 6:23:56 GMT
Did you find the Vanguards worth it in theme? 1 pt seemed like not enough of a "fix", but with the theme, I have been thinking about trying them out again. I see it as a cool buff for Irregulars: they seemed like a perfect marshalled jack to take advantage of multiple attacks with flank, and high arm with shield guard to protect the marshals themselves. However I thought they were a tad too expensive, and the nagging voice in the back of my head said "are they really any better than a nomad for the same cost?"
I feel that point discount now makes them perfect on Dirty Meg or Raluk Moorclaw in Irregulars. Maybe worth taking 2 vanguards even - one for each.
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Post by mydnight on Nov 14, 2017 8:52:09 GMT
Pathfinder makes em great in Llael. I'd rather talons in irregulars.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 14, 2017 16:07:46 GMT
Did you find the Vanguards worth it in theme? 1 pt seemed like not enough of a "fix", but with the theme, I have been thinking about trying them out again. I see it as a cool buff for Irregulars: they seemed like a perfect marshalled jack to take advantage of multiple attacks with flank, and high arm with shield guard to protect the marshals themselves. However I thought they were a tad too expensive, and the nagging voice in the back of my head said "are they really any better than a nomad for the same cost?"
I feel that point discount now makes them perfect on Dirty Meg or Raluk Moorclaw in Irregulars. Maybe worth taking 2 vanguards even - one for each.
Ya, I can see that on Meg. I'd go Rutger + Talon for the second set 100% of the time over Raluk + Anything though.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Nov 14, 2017 16:52:33 GMT
Now that Gastone has been released at WMW and is in Warroom, I have some ideas and this is the first one on the list: Theme: Llaelese Resistance 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army Lieutenant Crosse, Resistance Fighter - WJ: +29 - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator - PC: 4 - Mangler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Mariner - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Vanguard - PC: 11 Anastasia di Bray - PC: 3 Eilish Garrity, the Occultist - PC: 0 Major Harrison Gibbs - PC: 0 Ragman - PC: 4 Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage - PC: 0 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2 Exemplar Bastions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Exemplar Cinerators - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 Alright, so I played this list twice last night with one minor change. With the Vanguard's point reduction, I dropped the Tinker for Gorman. I'm officially done trying to get Bastions and Cinerators to work together in a list with him. My scenario presence that I was so hopeful for was way too slow. They are still not durable enough with all the various buffs and options. And finally, Gastone had a hard time actually doing anything constructive early enough to make any difference in the games. The first game was against a Jalaam Winds list. Because of Gastone's feat I was able to stall his main shooting alpha for a turn and forced him to run at me and try to jam me out while under his feat. Due to being able to get Eyeless Sight onto his caster so easily, I got assassinated while even on DEF 18 and behind a cloud. The second game was against Thexus. I was outnumbered and my volume of attacks and the terrain hindered me a bit (not being able to charge because of LoS issues). I had game until I realized I don't have the quality of attacks to take out 4 Monstrosities with ease. I ended up losing on scenario because Thexus's feat is BS for stuff like that and Alexia being able to spawn solos for free and then they activate and then run to contest/capture flags so easily is BS. I guess the highlight was that Anastasia did some serious work and survived much longer than I ever thought in both games. The moral of this story for me is that I will not be running Bastions *and* Cinerators in the same list without any kind of a speed boost. Zealots are looking like the next experiment for me followed by Tempest Blazers and Trencher Long Gunners.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 15, 2017 1:39:46 GMT
Now that Gastone has been released at WMW and is in Warroom, I have some ideas and this is the first one on the list: Theme: Llaelese Resistance 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army Lieutenant Crosse, Resistance Fighter - WJ: +29 - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator - PC: 4 - Mangler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Mariner - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Vanguard - PC: 11 Anastasia di Bray - PC: 3 Eilish Garrity, the Occultist - PC: 0 Major Harrison Gibbs - PC: 0 Ragman - PC: 4 Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage - PC: 0 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2 Exemplar Bastions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Exemplar Cinerators - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 I'm officially done trying to get Bastions and Cinerators to work together in a list with him. My scenario presence that I was so hopeful for was way too slow. They are still not durable enough with all the various buffs and options. And finally, Gastone had a hard time actually doing anything constructive early enough to make any difference in the games. HO SNAP!
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Post by gedditoffme on Nov 15, 2017 4:05:58 GMT
I see it as a cool buff for Irregulars: they seemed like a perfect marshalled jack to take advantage of multiple attacks with flank, and high arm with shield guard to protect the marshals themselves. However I thought they were a tad too expensive, and the nagging voice in the back of my head said "are they really any better than a nomad for the same cost?"
I feel that point discount now makes them perfect on Dirty Meg or Raluk Moorclaw in Irregulars. Maybe worth taking 2 vanguards even - one for each.
Ya, I can see that on Meg. I'd go Rutger + Talon for the second set 100% of the time over Raluk + Anything though. Forgot Vanguard already had assault for a second there: I'd argue with thatassault attack Raluk could be argued superior for a Rover though (ends up 4 attacks on the charge, inherent shield guard). You're right: Meg + Vanguard and Rutger + Talon could be a good basis for a Irregulars list. If b2b and behind their bases will be obscured, be 15 or 16def and have shield guard, both tough, and Rutger even has dodge if Taryn is around. The jacks themselves have ARM18/19 and can be repaired. Both marshals have good shooting that cannot be ignored. The package brings 2 sources of stall. If they get to combat the jacks can just go nuts with flank & crush.
(just ordered Rutger to try it out )
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Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 15, 2017 6:34:58 GMT
Alexia being able to spawn solos for free and then they activate and then run to contest/capture flags so easily is BS. Gasp! Speak not ill of the wielder of the Witchfire! I love Alexia & the Risen, it's such a fun unit! They are so useful, and Thrallpedos are awesome. BTW: spawning Thralls is not exactly free: it costs her a Risen and her action (so no double-boosted handcannon shot, or charging in and singlehandedly taking out a heavy, on that turn).
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Nov 15, 2017 19:10:40 GMT
Alexia being able to spawn solos for free and then they activate and then run to contest/capture flags so easily is BS. Gasp! Speak not ill of the wielder of the Witchfire! I love Alexia & the Risen, it's such a fun unit! They are so useful, and Thrallpedos are awesome. BTW: spawning Thralls is not exactly free: it costs her a Risen and her action (so no double-boosted handcannon shot, or charging in and singlehandedly taking out a heavy, on that turn). More like she's going to be coming back into rotation for me. It was such BS that I know I need to play her again.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 16, 2017 14:10:58 GMT
Gasp! Speak not ill of the wielder of the Witchfire! I love Alexia & the Risen, it's such a fun unit! They are so useful, and Thrallpedos are awesome. BTW: spawning Thralls is not exactly free: it costs her a Risen and her action (so no double-boosted handcannon shot, or charging in and singlehandedly taking out a heavy, on that turn). More like she's going to be coming back into rotation for me. It was such BS that I know I need to play her again. It's a bit counter intuitive, but I almost feel like I like her better now with less infantry in front of her. Using her as situational contesting and giving her room to do things has been more successful for me than trying to keep her bolstered. There's a lot going on with her now, and I haven't quite got it all nailed down yet.
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