Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Oct 26, 2017 12:50:52 GMT
Warroom also lets you add as many as you want (e.g. 4 min units of Stormlances). This is also not intended.
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Post by evilchoco on Oct 26, 2017 21:24:48 GMT
Isn't...good? weird? helping? a full sentence? I actually have an unassembled set of them I was thinking about converting to Tempest Blazers, but I am willing to wait until I hear some talk about what Spd 11 repo 5 + side step can do. Isn't fair. So I have been playing Ashlynn with Daughters and Flamebringers. The Daughters under feat with pathfinder find their way into the middle of your opponent's army and are very hard to remove (had an opponent in a tournament go from 52mins on his clock to 18 during my feat turn). Flamebringers running 22inches with DEF 16 against ranged/magic attacks helps their survivability greatly and gets them into your opponent's back lines far faster than they ever want. Parry and Side Step get them deep in and cause so many decisions to be made and mental gymnastics that you don't have to participate in. The fact that they can be where you want them to be so easily is gold. They threat an insane distance and can get out easily with Side Step and Repo 5. I use this list as my infantry answer. It's hilarious to watch your opponent when this happens.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Nov 6, 2017 17:10:30 GMT
Now that Gastone has been released at WMW and is in Warroom, I have some ideas and this is the first one on the list:
Theme: Llaelese Resistance 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army
Lieutenant Crosse, Resistance Fighter - WJ: +29 - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator - PC: 4 - Mangler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Mariner - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Vanguard - PC: 11
Anastasia di Bray - PC: 3 Eilish Garrity, the Occultist - PC: 0 Major Harrison Gibbs - PC: 0 Ragman - PC: 4 Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage - PC: 0 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2
Exemplar Bastions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Exemplar Cinerators - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9
The idea here is to have a strong scenario list with an assassination option with Gastone and the Mariner. The Bastions get Lifebound and stick close to key solos and Gastone to keep them alive. The Cinerators get Dauntless Resolve and just march up the middle and provide a wall of meat to hide behind. Gibbs stays near this whole mess to create wacky options with reposition on them all. Everything else is just there to do what they normally do. This list is built looking at a different option with Gastone than the obvious gun line he seems to want to build towards. There is a part of me that really wants to try him with Cygnar models, specifically the Tempest Blazers (the feat is a pulse) and Trencher Long Gunners. But the more I look at his spell list and abilities, the more I want either a jack heavy battlegroup to utilize Fire Group, or go this route with a meat shield that jams hard and gets going on scenario.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 6, 2017 18:46:46 GMT
it only took 4 days for somebody on this board to acknowledge the new caster!!! your list has like 10 guns a bunch of speed 4 models no way to get souls on crosse and no threat range extension. what do you think is going to happen???
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 6, 2017 20:59:11 GMT
it only took 4 days for somebody on this board to acknowledge the new caster!!! your list has like 10 guns a bunch of speed 4 models no way to get souls on crosse and no threat range extension. what do you think is going to happen??? Well, he's been more than a bit acknowledged in the past and he changed very little (if at all) post CID. Also, unless people were at WMW, they are either proxying a model they likely already proxied or are no closer to putting him on the table than they were 2 weeks ago. As for the list, I love the idea of the Bastions with Lifebound. I've been thinking that the whole time, but we'll see how it plays out. Some of the other includes though leave me questioning. The tinker seems odd for a list with only 1 melee jack. Paying for 2 premium 5 man units seems dicey for a caster who you really want to deliver, and having so many solos makes it terrifying to lose almost anything. I think there are some really good ideas in here, but tying up 34 points in the Cinerators and 2 thorn gun mage units, and then another 13 in solos/attachments, makes it seem like it would be very hard to hold a scenario reliably.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Nov 6, 2017 23:04:21 GMT
The Tinker is because I had 3 points left over and no other options.
I guess what I'm really looking to try out (hopefully tonight) is more of a brick style list that just marches forward and hits hard in melee. I envision it being a slow march forward after the first turn of running since I don't have to worry about shield walling or some such. As for the souls part, I don't really envision getting many from my models and I don't envision having too many from the beginning. Once the armies meet in the middle, that's when I think I could start getting lots of souls. This is a slow list that ramps up to a climax at round 3 or 4 most likely. I also envision the list using his feat much more defensively than offensively (the Cygnar options make the feat far more offensive). This is a pure experiment. It will either perform as expected, or bomb dramatically, we will see.
Hah! Just thought of the interactions between Dauntless Resolve (if you get the tough check), being knocked down and have Gibbs nearby (Feign Death).
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 7, 2017 0:46:35 GMT
there is no army so slow and durable that it can't be beaten by an army that is fast and hits hard. ask trollblood and dark host players. i envision you losing on scenario by Turn 4!!!
instead of walking slowly forward and not doing much to the other army you should try to do a lot of damage to the other army quickly so that you will not lose
lifebound is there to get souls on to crosse quickly so that he can help his army out by blasting the other one. that is why they made it an upkeep because it didn't work when it wasn't and crosse was awful
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Post by Sarcastastic on Nov 7, 2017 2:00:37 GMT
So I got in a game tonight, my first game with MacBain ever. That guy's toolkit is hilariously awesome. This was what I used: conflictchamber.com/#c6201b_-0R5t5X5Y5Z9r5Ig87za5a6a99U9V9WMercenary Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Llaelese Resistance (MacBain 1) Drake MacBain [+30] - Mangler [15] - Mule [15] - Nomad [11] - Rover [15] - Talon [7] Major Harrison Gibbs [4] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] Stormblade Infantry [10] - Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard [0(5)] - Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner (3) [6] Trencher Infantry (max) [16] - Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper [0(5)] - Trencher Infantry Rifle Grenadier (1) [2] I wanted to take out the Rifle Grenade, one Gunner, and a Talon to have a second Nomad, but that put me under the threshold for the second free solo, so I sucked it up, an extra smokecloud isn't too bad. And countermeasure on a running Talon is hilarious. Played into Jalaam Winds of Death, and the repo smoke wall is just too amazing. This almost runs trenchers better than Gravediggers.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 7, 2017 5:00:29 GMT
lookit
here is how you do crosse2 at this time when lalalese resistance is still waiting for its new models schick accidentally spoiled were coming during the finals yesterday (not for some time!)
if you want lalalaese resistance
Crosse2 Nomad 2 Mariners Sam and dogs Max Zealots with monolith Vengers Reinholdt Ragman Eilish Taryn Gibbs Anastasia
u put lifebound on the zealots because they shield guard everything and come back, see. tons of souls so crosse goes pew pew pew
u put dauntless on the dogs so they survive blasts, and combined with stealth feat and zealot shield guards, will actually make it to toss nets on things
vengers need no support (zealot shield guards keep them alive) and do speedy heavy hitting since you dont have enough choices in that department
then crosse and the mariners blast away while the rest of the army does its thing
if u want irregulars
Crosse2 2 Rovers 2 Mariners Reinholdt Eilish Gibbs Ragman 3x 10 Halberdiers Lynus and Edrea Aiyana and Holt
u put dauntless on one unit of steelhead halbs so they survive blasts and lifebound on another and you run them forward and force the issue. crosse and the BG shoot while the halberdiers attack, die and give souls. lynus gives crosse applied knowledge and edrea will soon blow away clouds
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Nov 7, 2017 18:28:53 GMT
Now that Gastone has been released at WMW and is in Warroom, I have some ideas and this is the first one on the list: Theme: Llaelese Resistance 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army Lieutenant Crosse, Resistance Fighter - WJ: +29 - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator - PC: 4 - Mangler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Mariner - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Vanguard - PC: 11 Anastasia di Bray - PC: 3 Eilish Garrity, the Occultist - PC: 0 Major Harrison Gibbs - PC: 0 Ragman - PC: 4 Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage - PC: 0 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2 Exemplar Bastions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Exemplar Cinerators - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 So I played a game last night with this list. It worked as expected, but I also faced up against a list that had an answer for almost everything I was trying to do. He played more conservatively so the few models that I could actually get souls from were hard to get at. It was a Thagrosh1 list with a Throne (snacking to not give souls), heavy on the beasts (soulless) and a couple solos and a min unit of swordsmen with CA. It also didn't help that I whiffed all of of my charge attacks when charging into his army with my Cinerators; the one that got an attack off Vengeance hit and did significant damage to Typhon. My dice hated me, but I think I would have pulled out a scenario win if they weren't so bad. I ended with 9 to his 7 when I conceded, we didn't play on a clock as it was his like 4th game ever or so and I gave him a lot of concessions for abilities he forgot about often. I found out that ARM 20, tough Cinerators still die too easily to his charging weapon masters, snacking is a hard counter to what I want to do, and terrain is a huge player in denying me souls (we were dancing around a forest for 3 rounds before he committed his swordsmen). If I was playing in a tournament with 2 lists available, I would never have played this list into that Legion list. Playing blindly into another list is not good, but you learn a lot with a good stress test. I am going to play this list again, hopefully into a WM army because that is where I see this list performing much better. The slow speed of my models did not hinder me one bit, but his low model count army probably had something to do with it. The Mariner was the MVP here; not with his shooting, he did lots of work in melee for me. I do feel I need to, at the bare minimum, replace the Vanguard with probably a Nomad.
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Post by xc18 on Nov 8, 2017 0:54:12 GMT
Bastions are an expensive unit (not good for collectif souls) and a frontline unit, (not good for Shield guard and obviously more vulnerable to close range rfp effect and dispel effects). So my first thought would be they are not really a good target for Lifebound, sorry ;(
And because of Ghost fleet, many many lists actually have rfp or dispel mechanisms (Eilish, anyone?), so you will actually have very few good matchups that let you benefit Lifebound on your bastions.
Prefer disposable models, if possible with recursion. Like zealot as already advised. (In Irregular, i am thinking min unit of highshield or forgeguard with the BE)
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 8, 2017 3:04:59 GMT
Now that Gastone has been released at WMW and is in Warroom, I have some ideas and this is the first one on the list: Theme: Llaelese Resistance 3 / 3 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army Lieutenant Crosse, Resistance Fighter - WJ: +29 - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator - PC: 4 - Mangler - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Mariner - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Vanguard - PC: 11 Anastasia di Bray - PC: 3 Eilish Garrity, the Occultist - PC: 0 Major Harrison Gibbs - PC: 0 Ragman - PC: 4 Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage - PC: 0 Gobber Tinker - PC: 2 Exemplar Bastions - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Exemplar Cinerators - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 Thorn Gun Mages - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 So I played a game last night with this list. It worked as expected, but I also faced up against a list that had an answer for almost everything I was trying to do. He played more conservatively so the few models that I could actually get souls from were hard to get at. It was a Thagrosh1 list with a Throne (snacking to not give souls), heavy on the beasts (soulless) and a couple solos and a min unit of swordsmen with CA. It also didn't help that I whiffed all of of my charge attacks when charging into his army with my Cinerators; the one that got an attack off Vengeance hit and did significant damage to Typhon. My dice hated me, but I think I would have pulled out a scenario win if they weren't so bad. I ended with 9 to his 7 when I conceded, we didn't play on a clock as it was his like 4th game ever or so and I gave him a lot of concessions for abilities he forgot about often. I found out that ARM 20, tough Cinerators still die too easily to his charging weapon masters, snacking is a hard counter to what I want to do, and terrain is a huge player in denying me souls (we were dancing around a forest for 3 rounds before he committed his swordsmen). If I was playing in a tournament with 2 lists available, I would never have played this list into that Legion list. Playing blindly into another list is not good, but you learn a lot with a good stress test. I am going to play this list again, hopefully into a WM army because that is where I see this list performing much better. The slow speed of my models did not hinder me one bit, but his low model count army probably had something to do with it. The Mariner was the MVP here; not with his shooting, he did lots of work in melee for me. I do feel I need to, at the bare minimum, replace the Vanguard with probably a Nomad. lifebound exists to get you souls but it only works if u put it on the right unit. when crosse2 came out in CID he had 4 spells, dark fire, fire group, sentry and lifebound and lifebound was 1 focus per 1 model and it didn't work. they clearly designed him to be a gun on legs at first and they put like five minutes of thought into his design i and others spent the full 3 week cycle turning in reports getting them to add support abilities (ghost walk and dauntless added week 2) and to fix lifebound (changed to an upkeep the very last week) so it actually worked as it does in its current form. i made a friggin nuisance of myself over it. but it won't work if you put in on a unit that is designed not to die, like bastions. it's supposed to go on cheap stuff that has to die. crosse2 is a powerful warcaster if he is doing death dealer on turns 2, 3 and 4 because that's a big personal impact on the game. otherwise he is pretty bad so u need dem souls fast
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 8, 2017 15:24:09 GMT
Bastions are an expensive unit (not good for collectif souls) and a frontline unit, (not good for Shield guard and obviously more vulnerable to close range rfp effect and dispel effects). So my first thought would be they are not really a good target for Lifebound, sorry ;( And because of Ghost fleet, many many lists actually have rfp or dispel mechanisms (Eilish, anyone?), so you will actually have very few good matchups that let you benefit Lifebound on your bastions. Prefer disposable models, if possible with recursion. Like zealot as already advised. (In Irregular, i am thinking min unit of highshield or forgeguard with the BE) I think the zealots or the other recursion type allies are a more aggressive option, definitely, but I think that using Lifebound only to get souls is a pretty limited view of the spell. Yes, it makes Gastone more personally impactful and leads to some truly spectacular damage output, but it's one way to play the game. Putting it on Bastions and having them hang around key pieces makes it a real pain to get anything done for your opponent and changes up the way engagements work. Now they need to commit more to each piece to remove it AND you will get souls. TL;DR: People play the same models very differently
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 8, 2017 16:37:48 GMT
Bastions are an expensive unit (not good for collectif souls) and a frontline unit, (not good for Shield guard and obviously more vulnerable to close range rfp effect and dispel effects). So my first thought would be they are not really a good target for Lifebound, sorry ;( And because of Ghost fleet, many many lists actually have rfp or dispel mechanisms (Eilish, anyone?), so you will actually have very few good matchups that let you benefit Lifebound on your bastions. Prefer disposable models, if possible with recursion. Like zealot as already advised. (In Irregular, i am thinking min unit of highshield or forgeguard with the BE) I think the zealots or the other recursion type allies are a more aggressive option, definitely, but I think that using Lifebound only to get souls is a pretty limited view of the spell. Yes, it makes Gastone more personally impactful and leads to some truly spectacular damage output, but it's one way to play the game. Putting it on Bastions and having them hang around key pieces makes it a real pain to get anything done for your opponent and changes up the way engagements work. Now they need to commit more to each piece to remove it AND you will get souls. TL;DR: People play the same models very differently well you can play nemo3 in the trencher theme and not use his electro stuff too but that doesn't mean it smart to do it. running him with a bunch of electroleaps is only one way to play the game after all!!!
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Nov 8, 2017 19:53:02 GMT
Yes, there is a difference however between using an ability in a different way and ignoring an ability entirely. Every OP combination was theorymachine at some point.
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