regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Aug 28, 2017 6:31:55 GMT
The requirement is "20 points of units", but lots of solos are allowed in the list. Would be be broken to allow Solos to count towards the free models? That would solve the "2 units of Idrians" problem.
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Post by gargs454 on Aug 28, 2017 17:07:27 GMT
The requirement is "20 points of units", but lots of solos are allowed in the list. Would be be broken to allow Solos to count towards the free models? That would solve the "2 units of Idrians" problem. I certainly think 20 points of units or solos from the allowed list (i.e. not the merc unit/solo) would fit thematically and would not be broken. It would also open up the theme to a larger variety of lists. Good point mentioned above about the wall possibly being near useless given the 3 inch requirement from other terrain. I find it particularly annoying that other terrain generating theme benefits lack that requirement. Again, this is one of the big problems I have with themes. It seems clear that they have different people coming up with theme benefits (which is fine in and of itself) but that they don't have a consistent guideline for what should be in a theme benefit other than free points (which is not fine). This is a big part of what leads to some themes being far more powerful than others.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 29, 2017 8:20:58 GMT
Theme update 28/8/17
Unit update
Holy Zealots: We hope to further incentivize players to bring Zealots with a slightly reduced point cost bringing them in line with other options.
Cost 7/12
Theme update
The Faithful Masses: Allowing Paladin models to generate free points will really open up the list building options for this theme.
Thoughts on the change
It's a really nice change to be able to count paladin solos towards free points. Incentivising their inclusion is the best way to get them on the table, and was suggested both in this thread and on the CID forums by different users. The drop in points for the Holy Zealots is good, but unfortunately doesn't quite address my personal concern with them on their effectiveness on the field. However, this is just my gut reaction. Being that little bit cheaper might swing it for list building (everyone needs a wrack after all).
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Post by WantonRanger on Aug 29, 2017 9:15:11 GMT
Theme update 28/8/17Unit updateHoly Zealots: We hope to further incentivize players to bring Zealots with a slightly reduced point cost bringing them in line with other options. Cost 7/12 Theme updateThe Faithful Masses: Allowing Paladin models to generate free points will really open up the list building options for this theme. Thoughts on the changeIt's a really nice change to be able to count paladin solos towards free points. Incentivising their inclusion is the best way to get them on the table, and was suggested both in this thread and on the CID forums by different users. The drop in points for the Holy Zealots is good, but unfortunately doesn't quite address my personal concern with them on their effectiveness on the field. However, this is just my gut reaction. Being that little bit cheaper might swing it for list building (everyone needs a wrack after all). These seem like some solid changes... Would still like to see the paladins made slightly more useful >> I think the dragoon giving defensive strike would be far superior to retaliatory strike which really only synergises with Harbinger and doesn't really address the fact that they are rarely going to survive for retaliation... Would love paladins to be a thing
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 29, 2017 11:50:36 GMT
I think zealots want to be a further 1 point cheaper and then they would be excellente. Yeah i think that's what i want
Ps. Especially since a 10 man unit right now means you're paying more per model than a min unit.
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Post by paradox on Aug 29, 2017 12:19:36 GMT
Faithful Masses
Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used:16) - Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Templar - PC: 15 - Templar - PC: 15
High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 6 FREE Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Allegiant of the Order of the Fist - PC: 3 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Paladin Champion of the Wall: 8 Paladin Champion of the Wall: 8
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
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Post by WantonRanger on Aug 29, 2017 12:26:38 GMT
Do you think something like this is viable or does it split the theme too much? Plus I guess it could do with more bodies/recursion which would be a plus for the zealots: conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0O171U1U1q1q1q1q1qjC3E3r3r2_2_2W2W3G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses (CID) !!! Your army contains a CID entry. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Amon 1) High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza [+29] - Crusader [10] - Crusader [10] - Dervish [7] - Dervish [7] - Dervish [7] - Dervish [7] - Dervish [7] Champion of the Order of the Wall [8] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [0(6)] Paladin of the Order of the Wall [4] Paladin of the Order of the Wall [4] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Deliverer Sunburst Crew [0(5)] Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] A little ranged, a screening unit, a paladin ball/solos, some Chloe and a good chunk of Amon's usual Jack Cadre...
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 29, 2017 13:33:46 GMT
Faithful Masses Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used:16) - Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Templar - PC: 15 - Templar - PC: 15 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 6 FREE Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Allegiant of the Order of the Fist - PC: 3 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Paladin Champion of the Wall: 8 Paladin Champion of the Wall: 8 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 I've been wondering whether Anson might be the secret sauce for Paladins (obvious really, being a giant paladin himself...) Protection for battle group, who can then help to deliver power solos and infantry via Anson's feat.
A note on the jacks - a chap in my group has tried out light warjacks with Durst, in his case devouts. They're extremely viable with him because of a culmination of points - native high def and arm which is bolstered by bulwark and his feat, defensive strikes, and spell ward and shieldguard. Another good potential light is the revenger. Again, high def and arm, with a repel weapon that will knock enemies back that hit it, which throws followup charges out of line. I also really like the idea of some sacrificial zealots in the list (with monolith bearer hidden behind some warjacks) to both trigger hand of vengeance and to spawn back later.
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Post by shroomvolcano on Aug 29, 2017 13:59:02 GMT
I think zealots want to be a further 1 point cheaper and then they would be excellente. Yeah i think that's what i want Ps. Especially since a 10 man unit right now means you're paying more per model than a min unit. That makes sense though, because you're mini-feating back more Zealots with a max unit. Also some fluffy thoughts about the Monolith Bearer: So, I love building a narrative in my head while I play, it keeps me really engaged and I see things play out like a movie. I've really been wanting a Zealot theme for a long time, as they've been one of my favorite units since the beginning of Mk2, and they're fluffy as all heck. Previously, when the Monolith Bearer used Greater Destiny, I've envisioned he's yelling to the fallen Zealots: "Get up! Your wounds are not so bad as to not serve Menoth, you have a Greater Destiny ahead!" and all the injured and fallen Zealots drag themselves back to their feet. Now, I'm having fun thinking the Bearers are actively recruiting during battle: "Come serve Menoth, and fulfill your Greater Destiny! Come to me and receive Menoth's blessing of Fire!" and all of these brand new Zealots start flocking to him as he's preaching and then he turns them loose to run into combat. Anyways, I'm thinking Vindictus with a full Paladin boat, double Zealots, and a Deliverer squad. What a great fluffy army, and it should perform decently well. Take a Reckoner for Flare, boosting the Zealots to Rat 7 (they can consistently disable or kill *most* heavies at Rat 7) and a Sanctifier for focus efficiency (plus he's not really bound by control area if he's generating his own focus), maybe a Castigator for a cheap, easily buffed heavy. Paladins and Warjacks both are going to proc Righteous Vengeance and Hand of Vengeance consistently. The biggest concern is that it's a lot of models, and I have some concerns about them getting in each other's way. Lots of practice to be had.
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Post by paradox on Aug 29, 2017 14:16:37 GMT
Faithful Masses Anson Durst, Rock of the Faith - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used:16) - Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Templar - PC: 15 - Templar - PC: 15 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 6 FREE Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Allegiant of the Order of the Fist - PC: 3 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Paladin Champion of the Wall: 8 Paladin Champion of the Wall: 8 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 I've been wondering whether Anson might be the secret sauce for Paladins (obvious really, being a giant paladin himself...) Protection for battle group, who can then help to deliver power solos and infantry via Anson's feat.
A note on the jacks - a chap in my group has tried out light warjacks with Durst, in his case devouts. They're extremely viable with him because of a culmination of points - native high def and arm which is bolstered by bulwark and his feat, defensive strikes, and spell ward and shieldguard. Another good potential light is the revenger. Again, high def and arm, with a repel weapon that will knock enemies back that hit it, which throws followup charges out of line. I also really like the idea of some sacrificial zealots in the list (with monolith bearer hidden behind some warjacks) to both trigger hand of vengeance and to spawn back later. Im thinking it can work. I had a very similar list in the dojo weeks before FM dropped. The paladins are speed bumps for the jacks. Stance + Decel make them 13/23 at range. There's a few shield guards here to help keep them in place. BC gives them 12" threats. The jackwall itself is 14/21 or 12/23 vs ranged, and on feat can really push in hard. Basically, it should take alot of work to kill a paladin before it hits, and that triggers all the Righteous Vengeance and Hallowed Avenger. The CID now adds some free points, Hand of Vegeance, and a wall for Durst. And champions bring more paladin hitting power, durability, and Retaliatory Strike. Im keen to get it on the table.
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 29, 2017 14:48:15 GMT
I'm of the opinion that the base cost of the unit should not reflect the abilities of the ua. Which is pretty expensive for one dude because of how good his abilities are
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d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Aug 29, 2017 14:51:28 GMT
The point/model difference between min and max is too small to be an issue, especially since Zealots are FA:3.
Could we do Vindictus the Invincible? --------------------------------------- Vindictus: +29 - Hierophant: 3 - Reckoner: 16 - Reckoner: 16
Allegiant: 3 Wrack: 1 Wrack: 1
Choir (min): 4 Idrians (max + free CA): 15 Idrians (max + free CA): 15 Zealots (max + CA): 15 Zealots (max + CA): 15 Sunburst Crew (free): 0 ---------------------------------------
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 29, 2017 16:58:22 GMT
I was thinking something like this: conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0O151r24241L3q3k3k3E3r3r2_jI2i3G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses (CID) !!! Your army contains a CID entry. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Harbinger 1) The Harbinger of Menoth [+24] - Devout [9] - Templar [15] - Guardian [15] - Vigilant [9] - Hierophant [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [0(6)] Paladin of the Order of the Wall [4] Paladin of the Order of the Wall [4] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Holy Zealots (max) [12] - Monolith Bearer [3] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [0(5)] I've been wanting to get the Harbinger back on the table and this seems like a fun and fluffy way to do it. The living embodiment of Menoth floating over the field surrounded by her faithful masses. Lots of good martyr targets a good number of shield guards and excellent infantry presence. Ever since themes have become a big thing I've been struggling to get my Harbinger/monk combo on the table and I'm thrilled to be able to do it again. Once the paladin champions drop I may switch around some points to fit one in.
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 29, 2017 17:17:59 GMT
I was thinking something like this: conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0O151r24241L3q3k3k3E3r3r2_jI2i3G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Faithful Masses (CID) !!! Your army contains a CID entry. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. (Harbinger 1) The Harbinger of Menoth [+24] - Devout [9] - Templar [15] - Guardian [15] - Vigilant [9] - Hierophant [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] High Paladin Dartan Vilmon [0(6)] Paladin of the Order of the Wall [4] Paladin of the Order of the Wall [4] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Holy Zealots (max) [12] - Monolith Bearer [3] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [0(5)] I've been wanting to get the Harbinger back on the table and this seems like a fun and fluffy way to do it. The living embodiment of Menoth floating over the field surrounded by her faithful masses. Lots of good martyr targets a good number of shield guards and excellent infantry presence. Ever since themes have become a big thing I've been struggling to get my Harbinger/monk combo on the table and I'm thrilled to be able to do it again. Once the paladin champions drop I may switch around some points to fit one in. I feel like you want a champion somewhere in there
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Post by greytemplar on Aug 29, 2017 17:44:39 GMT
Drop the Vigilant for a Champion and a wrack?
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