Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 18, 2017 18:40:00 GMT
K2 and errants?! EVERYTHING I KNOW IS A LIE!!!! I keep telling you all! Same. They and deliverers are respected in my local meta, both on my account. K2, OTOH, I'm still not sure where he fits when Vindictus exists. But the only thing stopping me from playing something like that is the spam part: I don't have enough doodz.
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Post by paradox on Aug 18, 2017 18:48:31 GMT
You're right, it could not POSSIBLY be he's just good at the game. Both are likely true. What do you believe those bad match ups to be? What must he have dodged that would per se defeat both lists?
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Post by blydz on Aug 18, 2017 18:55:45 GMT
These are not the kind of lists I'm used to play. And I'm certainly not thinking about it... Where is the fun ? Where is all the stuff that make the Protectorate cool ? Are we reduced to making this kind of lists to win ? (Just spamming...) Well, I'm assuming the "fun" came in winning. As for the stuff that defines Protectorate -- I do kind of feel like the Exemplars do that. Hit the knights, the others get a bit better. Hit the Errants and you might not actually get the one you were aiming for. The Vessels also are fairly emblematic of Protectorate (imo) as support pieces with a couple other tricks up their sleeves. As for spamming: As noted PP is on record as saying this is the sort of thing that they want. Now I get that some people might not want spam (after all, those lists get expensive $ wise pretty quick) but that does seem to be the direction that PP is going. Now all that said, I wouldn't mind seeing a more balanced approach also being successful (like maybe 4-5 jacks and a couple of units), but I guess my question would be, what kind of list do you want to play? Why do you feel that you can't play said list? (Not saying you are wrong btw, just legitimately curious). Yeah, exemplars define Protectorate (and in Exemplar theme, certainly) in a way, but there is so much entry for our lists I can't believe we just have to stick with 3 units of Knights per list. Themes are not an obligation, why not some Daughters, or Flame Bringer ? Vengers are still good and sennys, maybe With Gravus too ? (If you want to stay in the theme) Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these lists are bad, it's just not my way. I like some variety. /sarcastic mode on/ If PP want some spam, maybe we can ask for delete the "not so good" (bastions, cinerators, deliverers,...) models and units during the CID so we can keep the good ones for spamming ? why bothering us trying to fix their "design space" errors, when we can spam dervish and knights exemplars ?... /sarcastic mode off/ Damn, that's make me really sad....
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Post by paradox on Aug 18, 2017 19:04:11 GMT
So play those other lists? Why are you trying to shame a player that did well? Are you claiming he did not enjoy these lists? Are you saying themes should not be the primary way to play? Because if so, PP has bad news for you.
This just seems like salt for the sake of salt. As if you need to find justification for hating yourself for playing this faction, or need a way to keep your pity party going.
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Post by gargs454 on Aug 18, 2017 19:17:42 GMT
Yeah I've actually seen Thyra for instance do quite well with Flamebringers and Daughters. So I don't think those units are unplayable. They were "unplayable" for this particular player simply because he ran two themes that didn't allow them. However, with PP having the goal of putting every model into a theme by the end of the year, there are always going to be more themes than possible lists, so you'll always run into this issue.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of themes, or at least not in the way they are being implemented (free points); however, PP has explicitly stated they want us running themes and its clear that those themes are going to continue to revolve around free points. So I don't see this as much as a Protectorate issue as I see it as a WMH issue.
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Post by blydz on Aug 18, 2017 19:18:53 GMT
So play those other lists? Why are you trying to shame a player that did well? Are you claiming he did not enjoy these lists? Are you saying themes should not be the primary way to play? Because if so, PP has bad news for you. This just seems like salt for the sake of salt. As if you need to find justification for hating yourself for playing this faction, or need a way to keep your pity party going. Yeah... you seem pretty agressive here... maybe I'm wrong... maybe not. I'm not trying to shame anyone here. Maybe the guy enjoy playing his list, maybe he's just another crazy evil mind looking for just crushing his opponents and winning game. I don't know. What I'm saying is, if the future of this game (not only the faction) is to play the maximum of the same model/unit entry in the same list, sure, I will certainly reconsider my relationship with PP. I really don't see the point on buying multiple models or units, if the futur of the game is spamming dervishs and knights exemplar.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 18, 2017 20:20:40 GMT
Well. Aside from the vessels of judgement, these are basically MK2 lists. K2 with lots of KE (in his theme) and Amon with various flavour of crusaders and dervishes.
I'm not really sure what the controversy is about these lists, they're tried and true protectorate lists in my eyes.
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Post by mydnight on Aug 18, 2017 22:52:37 GMT
The only thing I worry for the Kreoss list is lack of pathfinder.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 18, 2017 23:21:46 GMT
The only thing I worry for the Kreoss list is lack of pathfinder. This is why I'm unsure of why K2 would be chosen over Vindictus. Sure, the Kreoss feat is pretty baller, but so is Vindy's. In the meantime, more reach, pathfinder. Is FOS and no arcnodes really worth the difference?
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Post by Swampmist on Aug 19, 2017 0:25:25 GMT
honestly, it might be FOS, no arcnodes from denny1 (so he only gets hit by feat,) and feat. If he expected a lot of Fyanna2, kreoss2's feat is pretty much the hardest counter in the game.
My question is; how did he beat ghost fleet? Especially the not-denny1 versions? no RFP, and lots of slow dudes to get shot and turned into even more pirates. Am I missing something?
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 19, 2017 1:36:42 GMT
honestly, it might be FOS, no arcnodes from denny1 (so he only gets hit by feat,) and feat. If he expected a lot of Fyanna2, kreoss2's feat is pretty much the hardest counter in the game. My question is; how did he beat ghost fleet? Especially the not-denny1 versions? no RFP, and lots of slow dudes to get shot and turned into even more pirates. Am I missing something? I'm working on the theory that between cleaving, overtaking, and auto-hitting knights exemplar charging through each other is pretty devastating. And when you have that many bodies on the field and Errants to deliver them (Errants can deny almost all of the on-kill effects), it will even wreck ghost fleet.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 19, 2017 3:46:49 GMT
You're also assuming he faced ghost fleet ... or did they post his match ups some where I haven't seen.
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Post by Swampmist on Aug 19, 2017 4:51:22 GMT
You're also assuming he faced ghost fleet ... or did they post his match ups some where I haven't seen. I was more considering the impact of "list dodging." if he never fought ghost fleet, which is a match-up he may have a hard time with (no charges with denny1 can be difficult, though beatable, but mass tough from Terminus makes the list muchharder to deal with,) then his list paier is certainly a lot stronger.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 19, 2017 7:06:07 GMT
Honestly, the errants are a really good backbone in the list. I like the idea of sacrosanct on one unit and Inviolable Resolve on another, constantly casting castigate to deny those horrible little arc nodes. Once denny's feat is done, the knights will be chewing through the enemy infantry really fast.
It's quite unconventional, but looks quite effective to me.
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Post by bskhacker on Aug 20, 2017 22:01:19 GMT
Hmm I wonder if anyone actually tried K2 until now lol. I'll have to try a variation of mostly because I can't buy another unit of ke and ee at the moment. Maybe something like this:
War Room Army
Protectorate of Menoth - Make k2 great again
Theme: Exemplar Interdiction 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Grand Exemplar Kreoss - WJ: +28 - Fire of Salvation - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Templar - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
High Exemplar Gravus - PC: 9 - High Exemplar Gravus (Continued) Knights Exemplar Seneschal - PC: 0 Knights Exemplar Seneschal - PC: 5
Exemplar Errants - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4 Knights Exemplar - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Knights Exemplar Officer - PC: 0 Knights Exemplar - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Knights Exemplar Officer - PC: 0 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Exemplar Cinerators - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16
THEME: Exemplar Interdiction ---
GENERATED : 08/20/2017 17:42:57 BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25
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