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Post by jisidro on Aug 17, 2017 9:53:21 GMT
When I first started making lists in Mk3 my first thought was 'damn I am strapped for points to spend on solos here', I am a massive fan of free solos and UAs. Also the irregulars theme is the first time in a long while I have been excited about making lists, yeah Heavy Metal is good, but is bloody boring to build lists for, this new Merc theme is getting my creative juices flowing, so big thumbs up for PP from me.
Back to Cygnar! Bad boy!
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Post by mydnight on Aug 17, 2017 10:39:25 GMT
As revealed I don't think the Llael theme even makes sense now with all the restrictions and minor benefits (sniper for gunmages, 1 unit from cygn/menoth) apart from the choir-galleon combo.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 17, 2017 11:01:32 GMT
As revealed I don't think the Llael theme even makes sense now with all the restrictions and minor benefits (sniper for gunmages, 1 unit from cygn/menoth) apart from the choir-galleon combo.
The Llael theme was revelead?
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Post by thirdorbital on Aug 17, 2017 14:52:08 GMT
Personally I think if you want an "irregular" army you should make the army restriction be that everything becomes FA:1. And I say that as a guy who loves spam lists in general.
Having benefits with no restrictions is dumb, and running the bunny ranch and calling it "the irregular theme" is as asinine as calling Karchev jack spam "the winterguard theme" used to be.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 17, 2017 15:16:45 GMT
Personally I think if you want an "irregular" army you should make the army restriction be that everything becomes FA:1. And I say that as a guy who loves spam lists in general. Having benefits with no restrictions is dumb, and running the bunny ranch and calling it "the irregular theme" is as asinine as calling Karchev jack spam "the winterguard theme" used to be. you probably still run bunny ranch in Hammerstrike, free mortars, extra deployment and repo 3 on the heavies are good
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 17, 2017 17:16:04 GMT
Personally I think if you want an "irregular" army you should make the army restriction be that everything becomes FA:1. And I say that as a guy who loves spam lists in general. Having benefits with no restrictions is dumb, and running the bunny ranch and calling it "the irregular theme" is as asinine as calling Karchev jack spam "the winterguard theme" used to be. you probably still run bunny ranch in Hammerstrike, free mortars, extra deployment and repo 3 on the heavies are good As opposed to paying for the mortars normally, getting a bunch of power solos and having advance move on up to 3 jacks if you include herne and john.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 17, 2017 17:59:47 GMT
Ossrum likes access to Eiryss, Sylys, Rhupert, and friends. And getting them for free is beautiful.
And flank on the jacks (Drillers) really helps. Ossrum has no innate damage buff for melee. Run a forgeguard into melee during feat turn, then follow up with a p+s18 wm Driller.
Hammer Strike might be semi-viable, but I think it runs better in Irregulars.
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Post by Azuresun on Aug 17, 2017 18:25:01 GMT
Easy solution: remove free points from themes. Themes give ONLY rules bonuses to the armies. If a model is free in theme, it is free specifically as a result of a single theme benefit (for example: 1 small or medium based solo may be added to the list for free) in place of another theme benefit. Immediately narrows the gap between theme and non-theme, and gives them waaaay more flexibility to create themes that are more interesting than 'generic subtheme X - take a bunch of X, get some more free X.' Seriously, does ANYONE actually like free points in theme? People who get the most free points in theme tend to like it. I agree, but the genie is out of the bottle and we're in the new world where the point costs on most solos might as well not be there. If they were overpriced, then the solution was to lower the price but, again, too late.
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Post by Aegis on Aug 17, 2017 18:29:38 GMT
Easy solution: remove free points from themes. Themes give ONLY rules bonuses to the armies. If a model is free in theme, it is free specifically as a result of a single theme benefit (for example: 1 small or medium based solo may be added to the list for free) in place of another theme benefit. Immediately narrows the gap between theme and non-theme, and gives them waaaay more flexibility to create themes that are more interesting than 'generic subtheme X - take a bunch of X, get some more free X.' Seriously, does ANYONE actually like free points in theme? People who get the most free points in theme tend to like it. I agree, but the genie is out of the bottle and we're in the new world where the point costs on most solos might as well not be there. If they were overpriced, then the solution was to lower the price but, again, too late. Cygnar gets a fair share of free models. I still hate it.
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Post by Blargaliscious on Aug 17, 2017 20:05:43 GMT
Ossrum likes access to Eiryss, Sylys, Rhupert, and friends. And getting them for free is beautiful. And flank on the jacks (Drillers) really helps. Ossrum has no innate damage buff for melee. Run a forgeguard into melee during feat turn, then follow up with a p+s18 wm Driller. Hammer Strike might be semi-viable, but I think it runs better in Irregulars. Don't forget that the flank bonus is only on the warjacks that are controlled by jack marshals. None of the solos that you mentioned are jack marshals. If you get those mentioned solos and then pay the points for jack marshalls, those points spent on solos do not count towards free solos, so you may only be looking at 2 or 3 free solos. Only points spent on units and warjacks count towards free solos. Also don't forget that Appendix B says that only Rhulic jack marshals can jack marshal a Rhulic warjack. Since Thor Steinhammer is the only Rhulic jack marshal I know of, your dreams of rampaging hordes of Drillers with Flank might be... just a dream. Sorry...
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 17, 2017 20:10:11 GMT
Hammer Strike might be semi-viable, but I think it runs better in Irregulars. "The best way to play Minions is to play Skorne" Seems counter intuitive that the dwarf specific theme would fall short compared to the generic theme. But table time will be the actual proof of concept.
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Post by nightdragon on Aug 17, 2017 20:14:31 GMT
I am jealous of mercenaries. This is exactly what I want all armies to be able to do. Themes can then add (minor) benefits for the (minor) costs of restricting your model selection. It gets rid of the free points arguments (which are a big component of the theme arguments that I've seen).
Just make this the standard for all armies. Add it to the "Build an Army" section of the rules or whatever. "Each army consists of one Warcaster/Warlock. For each 25 points of units/warjacks/warbeasts, add one solo to the army free of cost." Then specify the theme benefits in a faction specific army building guide. If an army consists only of models from the following list (all storm guys, all tharn, all banes, whatever), gain 2" to deployment, or ambush on a unit, or for every 20 points of those guys get a free solo instead of 25. Add a couple!
Then I can finally play out of theme without feeling terrible. All I want to do is play Trenchers and Stormguard together. Isn't that handicap enough? Why do I also need to play 10+ points down?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Aug 17, 2017 20:30:44 GMT
Gencon, talked to will hungerford and he explained his decision and it made sense to me.
On phone now, I have other secrets as well. Will spill later.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 17, 2017 20:42:16 GMT
Gencon, talked to will hungerford and he explained his decision and it made sense to me. On phone now, I have other secrets as well. Will spill later. Well, if THAT ain't the most tantalizingly vague post I ever did see...
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Post by Aegis on Aug 17, 2017 21:10:48 GMT
Gencon, talked to will hungerford and he explained his decision and it made sense to me. On phone now, I have other secrets as well. Will spill later. I'm curious too about Hungerford explaination. I'm not expecting much since the value of devs "explainations" lately, but I would be gladly surprised to discover I'm wrong. Please, share it when you have the chance.
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