Hey All, I started playing Ret back at the start of MK3 when I joined a Journeyman League at my local FLGS. I played Khador back in MK2 and had some success with Irusk2 infantry brick but I decided to go Ret for a more fast paced Jack heavy play style. So far I've been very happy with the decision. Problem is I'm not a great player building subpar lists and making dumb, in game, mistakes. I don't get to play that often, usually once a week, and figured posting battle reports would be a good way to figure out where I went wrong and hopefully become a better player. At the moment I'm playing Helynna in theme, looking to polish my list so that it will be competitive. After I get that list squared away I'll be looking to figure out a good pairing so I can maybe play a steamroller tournament. Since I'm trying to get better feel free to post any suggestions, comments, or critiques. Thanks In Advance
House Shyeel Artificer House Shyeel Artificer Sylys Wyshnalyrr Arcanist Mechanik Arcanist Mechanik Arcanist Mechanik
Warjack Points: 100 / 25 = 4 free solos Jacks have Shield Guard Start game with Upkeeps (Rhythm of War) in play
Opponents List: Trollbloods Theme: Band of Heroes
Rok Mauler Axer Bouncer
Champs w/ UA SOBs Stone w/ UA
Fell Caller Chronicler
Free solos +2" Deployment Warriors have Special takedown
Scenario: Entrenched Terrain: Large body of Water, Large Forest, Large Rubble, Medium Obstruction (house), 2 Medium Hills I go Second.
Deployment: Opponent - Caster in the middle of the board, Heavies and lights on my left Champs and SOBs on my right Me - Caster in the middle of the board with Sylys and Gorgons, Heavies and Chimera on my right with mechaniks, Griffons and Artificer on the right
Round 1: Opponent - Everything moves forward being very careful not to have anything within range of my guns or charges. Heavies and lights head towards their zone. Borka and support stay in the middle of the board. Borka casts Arcane Ward on the Champs who move towards my zone followed by the SOBs. Me - Arcanist give the Chimera and the Hydras each one Focus. I accidently boxed Sylys in so he just does his thing but has to stay put. Chimera runs up the field (14" with Apparition) 10" from the Axer, Helynna moves up and arcs a Obliterate in to it. The Hydras and a manticore move up, just out of charge range of the trolls up on the hill overlooking opponents zone. Second Manticore makes a small detour and sets up a covering fire to deter the champs from running into my zone. Gorgons and Artificer move towards my zone but stop short of the champs charge range. Griffons fleet and run up the right flank just staying in control range.
Round 2: Opponent - Heavies and lights move into their zone. Borka and support stay close to the middle, Borka heals up the obliterate damage on the Axer. Champs inch closer to my zone keeping out of charge range of my griffons. Me - Griffons move around the outside of the zone trying to flank the Champs. Helynna Feats, moves up and to the right into the zone and arcs an obliterate (shield guarded into the bouncer) and Hand of Destruction on to Rok and takes a shot at a champ but misses. Gorgons move up to block a charge on Helynna and shoot at the champs but can only one of the two boosted shots and deal 1 point of damage. Artificers can't shoot the champs so they move up in front of the gorgons and give themselves Polarity Field. Arcanists hand out some focus to the Manticores and I proceed to shoot Rok. He doesn't stumble away but I can only take out one aspect and leave him with 10 boxes. My Chimera, his job done charges the Axer and gives him a scratch. Its at this point I realize I've moved Helynna too far right and now my Chimera, one of the Manticores and one of the Hydras are out of control range and can't use Rhythm of war to move back out of the Mauler's charge range or get the +3 ARM from the feat. I Score 1 scenario point
Round 3: Opponent - Stone moves up and gives all the trolls+1 Str. Borka moves feats and into his zone and Axer uses all the fury it has access to on the Chimera but can't take it down. Bouncer slams it back into my put of control Manticore and knocks them both down. Rok charges up and takes out the manticore and scratches the second (ARM Buffed) one. Mauler charges and takes out the out of control range Hydra. Champs move up into my zone and take out the Artificers but because of Polarity field they can't get to the Gorgons or Griffons. Scores one scenario point so its tied. Me - I top off the Griffons. The Arcanist top off the Manticore and give it Concentrated Power. I forget to move the Manticore so it takes out Rok with one shot but is too far away from the mauler to use the rest of its attacks. The Chimera stands up and walks back up to the Axer toe-in the zone. The remaining Hydra moves back towards Helynna and takes a shot at the Mauler to little effect. Griffons and Gorgons charge the champs but because of their high Def and Tough I end up only taking out 2. No one scores still tied.
Round 4: Opponent - Bouncer frenzies and takes out the Chimera. Mauler takes out the last Manticore. Axer charges and takes out Hydra. Champs and SOBs take out one Gorgon and one Griffon. At this point I concede the victory.
Big mistakes were obviously leaving Jacks out of control range for Rythme of War and the Feat, and poorly positioning my Manticore. Talking with the Trolls player after they said I probably should have spread out the gorgons and Artificers for better flexibility. They also suggested I might have too many lights and I might want to drop and Gogon and the Chimera for a Phoenix.
1) A photo of the board would be cool. even a cellphone one 2) Spells are not ranged attacks. i.e. your opponent couldn't have shield guarded the obliteration.
As far as your list goes I would drop the Gorgons. You could take a Phoenix for those 18 points instead. Artificers are cool but, taking 2 x Magisters or even fitting in a unit of mittens (battlemages) would let you extend your threat a bit further.
It sounds like you realized your mistakes with the control limitation. Something else to keep in mind that the trolls list had very limited shooting and 1 extra turn of shooting before melee or getting the charges off yourself would have made a big difference.
edit: Why cast oblit on go turn? Jacks can use the focus better.
How committed are you to Helynna under theme?
Last Edit: Mar 11, 2017 20:10:40 GMT by ElaraIsBae
2. Thanks! We both missed that. I'll have to keep that one in mind because my opponent said they should have shield guarded the Hand of Destruction.
3. Both Gorgons? I like the ability to possibly prevent a charge due to lack of SPD. Plus would 2 arc nodes really be a good idea? Magisters look good but I like the Arcanist's ability to protect my caster and other solos from snipers and blast damage, I'll probably swap out one for a magister to see how it goes (how well does whip snap work with shooting?). Adding a unit of Mittens would be difficult points-wise but I'll keep it in mind.
4. Two rounds of shooting was the plan but because of my mess ups I didn't get it. If I stayed in control range could have RoW out of charge range from the Mauler. If I had spread out my Gorgons I could have prevented the Charge from Rok.
5. I get excited and over extend myself when I think I can damage something. Luckily with the Mechaniks I had plenty of focus. Because my opponent had the extended deployment zone my Heavies just walked round one. I did give the Griffons each a focus for Fleet to get them up the board in hopes of flanking.
6. Not 100% committed to Helynna in theme but it feels like this has been the strongest list I've run so far. What would your suggestions be?
3. - I am not a Gorgon fan; just to throw that bias out there. I don't have a blind hatred for them I would always rather do something else with my points is all.
Having two arc nodes doesn't hurt. Especially if you want to push Hand of Destruction around. Whip-snap would help you get a charge off before your opponent generally.
If you land whip-snap a friendly model within 3 inches of the magister it gets to move 2" out of activate so you threat a bit further. Or you can force bolt the enemy model and pull them 1d3" closer. So in short for shooting as much as I like the magister I am not sure he does much. Where the magister or a unit of mittens would shine is helping you get the melee alpha strike off after a turn or two (hopefully) of shooting.
4. Rok. Ow.
5. Totally get that. Just this weekend I missed my Kaelyssa feat because I got to go slap something and I got punished for it.
6. Our Vyre heavy jacks tend to have more utility guns but, as Vyre jacks they don't have shields so you lose part of Helynna's feat. If you drop out of theme you could take Discordia as a blast immunity tool.
Just thinking on the fly since I opted to use Vyros2 as my jack caster.
House Shyeel Battle Mages (10) -Soulless Escort (1)
The soulless is just there to spend the 1 point. There is a bunch of freedom when you aren't limited to Shyeel only jacks, Hemera releases in June and is a heavy arc-node so we will have to see what that jack has.
Last Edit: Mar 13, 2017 18:38:23 GMT by ElaraIsBae: formatting
3. I've noticed a lot of Gorgon "hate" (dislike really) but I don't get it. Granted it is a little over costed but combined with Rhythm or War and Hand of Destruction I've gotten a lot of use out of them.
I'll have to see how adding the Phoenix goes but I am coming around on the idea of 2 arc nodes. The Chimera is really great at getting up the board fast and with its Phantasmal Field and Decel its pretty resilient to shooting. Plus since it doesn't have a gun I don't lose out on anything if it has to move to get within 10". Losing a Griffon for a Chimera wouldn't be a bad trade either since I mostly just use the Griffons to jam.
I"m still not convinced the Magister works in my list. I'll give it a shot but in my experience, when I don't mess up control range, my shooting forces my opponent to move into melee range without me needed any boosts.
5. I do like the Vyre jacks but I think they work better in a control-ly list as opposed to a straight up gun line. Same with Disco, I feel like I'd be changing the over all type of list by adding too much control stuff.
I have a game on Thursday so I'll see how trading the Chimera and the Gorgon for a Phoenix goes and go from there (probably swapping a Artificer for a Magister).
If I get a second game in this week I'll be trying out my Vyros1 list that I'm thinking of pairing with Helynna.
With the list you posted I don't think he gets free points? Atleast not in the +2" deployment theme.
Suggestion? You are almost certainly going to get out-shot since gunny is the premier anti-gunline lock in trolls. Not sure if you have a more melee-focused list, but if so it'll be a better match-up for you.
Scenario: Take and Hold Terrain: Large body of Water, Large Forest, Large Rubble, Medium Obstruction (house), Medium Hill, Bunker (See Picture above) I go Second.
Opponent - Caster in the middle of the board, Bombers and Dozer on my left with Wardens and Mauler on my right Me - Caster in the middle of the board with Sylys and an Artificer, Heavies and Gorgon on my left with mechaniks and second artificer, Griffons on the right
Opponent - Everything moves forward being very careful not to have anything within range of my guns or charges. Gunny casts Snipe on Dozer. Me - Hydra's and Phoenix walk up onto the hill followed by the mechanics and an Artificer who puts up Force wall. Helynna casts Decel and move up with Sylys. The Griffons and Manticores form a wall in front of them and the second Artificer uses Force Wall on them. Manticore also lay down covering fire on either side of the building. The Gorgon moves up the left flank staying out of range of the Bombers.
Round 2: Opponent - Gunny move up behind the building and casts his range attack bump and feats. He also is able to get LOS on the Artificer with the Hydras and take a shot leaving it on one box. Wardens move up in front of their flag but one falls victim to a spiked Covering Fire roll. Bombers and Dozer focus fire on one of my manticores leaving it on 4 boxes (damage rolls were very bad but I also forgot to spread damage around with shield guard). Mauler moves up the right flank. Me - Unable to shoot I charge my Phoenix and Griffons into his Wardens taking out 1. Helynna casts decel again, feats, repairs the manticore, and moves to the top of the hill with the Hydra's and mechanics. Manticores move up, the injured one tries to hide behind the building and the other lays down another covering fire to the left of the Wardens to box them in. Injured Artificer moves up with the gorgon and the fresh one moves over to give everyone on the hill Force wall.
Round 3: Opponent - Gunny (hoping for a crit) and Dozer take shots at the hyras but are not able to do much. Wardens and Bombers retaliate against the Phoenix and Griffons but can only really damage one Griffon. I miss placed the injured Manticore and the Mauler gets a charge off but can't damage it past its newly fixed shields. Me - I load up my Manticores, Phoenix, uninjured Griffon, and the Mechaniks give the Phoenix and injured Manticore Concentrated power. Injured Manticore wrecks the mauler but the rest of the Jacks can't do much against the rest of the trolls. My Hydras move up with my caster saying on the hill and renewing Force wall but not Decel.
Round 4: Opponent - Gunny takes another shot at my Hydras but comes up short. Kreils spread out and two turn their back to me. His Bombers then grab and throw my Phoenix and uninjured Manticore at the backwards Kriel. Both land out of my Control Range but the Manticore lands at the feat of Dozer who wrecks it (plan works well but he forgets to buy attacks with his bombers after they throw and he forgets to make ranged attacks with Dozer after he destroys the Manticore. Wardens take out the injured Griffon and one skirts around my Gorgon and takes out one of my Mechaniks. Me - Helynna moves out from behind the Hydras and drops Hand of Destruction on the left Bomber. Phoenix forfeits its movement to stand up and shoots the tagged Bomber in the back. Hydras and the Gorgon then finish it off. Remaining Manticore gets third focus and Concentrated power then walks up and attacks the second bomber but even with the help of the Griffon can't finish it off. Hydras, Artificer, Sylys, and Helynna form back up on top of the Hill.
Round 5: Opponent - Dozer tramples forward and tries to finish off the manticore but needs help from the Bomber and the remaining Wardens (one of which takes a free strikes and is knocked down after toughing). Gunny still can't do much due to horrible dice rolls but finally remembers he can create walls and blocks off Dozer and the Bomber from any retaliation from the hydras. Me - Phoenix walks up and shoots the stone barer leaving one left in the unit. An arced Obliterate, Hydra fire, and a fully loaded griffon with concentrated Power take out the rest of the Kriels, Wardens, and the Bomber.
Round 6: Opponent - Dozer takes a free strike from the Griffon to move up to the Phoenix and ties to throw it back out of control range but misses (rolls a 5 on three dice) and then fails to do much damage with bought attacks. Chronicler moves up to block the griffon and Gunny charges the gorgon (can't remember he takes it out) and puts up a wall for cover. Me - Fully loaded Phoenix and Griffon (which also has concentrated power) get Dozer down to 9 boxes. One of the Hydras charges in and finish it off. At this point my opponent concedes.
Thoughts - Wow what a grind, went to round 6 and took 4 hours. The two lists were well matched. Both our dice were rolling low on attacks most of the night but I spiked damage a lot which is how I ended up so much better off at the end. My opponent also had never played most of their models so forgot to use key abilities or add all the relevant bonuses.
Mistakes I made: Not deploying my gorgon opposite the Mauler. Because of this the Gorgon didn't have any good targets and did not earn its points this game. Not Shield Guarding Damage to it spread out. Leaving a LOS to my one Artificer. On average dice he should have died and then all of my mechanics would have probably died to blast damage. Leaving a LOS to my Manticore. A charging Mauler should have destroyed it even under feat.
Things I did well: Did not worry about scenario (other than Kill Box). No one scored any points this game Used my Feat at the right time. I almost used it round 1 against the incoming fire but held off and waited until more jacks would benefit and I could actually heal some shields Kept my Hydras in Reserve even when there wasn't anything to shoot. This kept my caster safe and made sure I could do work late in the game I didn't stretch myself too thin and focused on taking out one or two things a turn