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Post by adakai on Aug 15, 2017 15:03:57 GMT
Anyone running Vyros 1 in Defenders? Not sure I see too many people teching him into this theme and it seems like it would be fast and hit hard.
Theme: Defenders of Ios
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Dawnlord Vyros - WJ: +28
- Imperatus - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22)
- Griffon - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
- Griffon - PC: 8
- Griffon - PC: 8
- Griffon - PC: 8
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Houseguard Thane - PC: 0
Houseguard Thane - PC: 0
Lys Healer - PC: 3
Heavy Rifle Team - Leader & Grunt: 4
Houseguard Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
- Soulless Escort - PC: 1
Houseguard Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
- Soulless Escort - PC: 1
Miscellaneous thoughts: - advance move + Desperate pace + reform gets you far up the board turn 1 (while staying in shield wall) - 13" threat of charge (not as good as 15" but still great for charging to break through the first wave/reform deep and allow the griffons to charge into some more juicy targets?) - griffons can run 18" under mobility - Maybe take 3 min units of halbs for flexibility in activation? (not sure yet..)
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 15, 2017 15:30:03 GMT
No pathfinder on your warrior models is gonna hurt.
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Post by adakai on Aug 15, 2017 15:37:44 GMT
No pathfinder on your warrior models is gonna hurt. Yeah, I guess with the new terrain rules we will see a lot of terrain out there. Have you had a lot of trouble with terrain w/ halbs in general? I've found it somewhat manageable with my other lists
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 15, 2017 16:03:57 GMT
I don't play halbs. I play sentinels and soon Nyss hunters.
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Post by adakai on Aug 15, 2017 19:08:48 GMT
I don't play halbs. I play sentinels and soon Nyss hunters. Just dont own them yet? Or choose not to play them? They are one of my favorite units in Ret. They are so good
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 15, 2017 20:35:35 GMT
I don't play halbs. I play sentinels and soon Nyss hunters. Just dont own them yet? Or choose not to play them? They are one of my favorite units in Ret. They are so good I only got into ret in mk3. I havent committed to a list that needs them yet. So far helynna and ossyan fully painted. Having some stuff painted now to get ossyan into theme, them Vyros1 list is getting painted. Maybe some time in the future ill want to play them but currently they're not my style.
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Aug 16, 2017 5:28:40 GMT
In my own games, running a single full unit of non-pathfinder troops has been fine but with 2+ units you start to worry about positioning during deployment. Of course, Advanced Move + Desperate Pace might solve those problems and allow you to position better around terrain (I know it has helped me when I tried Thyron in Defenders).
I agree that it would be fast and hit hard. My main worry is how well it performs against shooting armies. Then again, Halberdies might be cheap enough that losing half of them before contact with the enemy is OK if it leaves your Myrmidons untouched.
I don't know what you plan to play this into but I wonder if you have enough punch to take on ARM lists. If not, I'd look at Skeryth Issyan and maybe Ghost Snipers.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 16, 2017 10:56:45 GMT
I've posted thoughts on how to play Vyros1 in my own thread but I just like the idea of nyss being able to spread out, have pathfinder and a ranged attack. Others in the area, like myself use terrain to our advantage. If you know your oponent doesnt have pathfinder you can position your stuff behind a wall pr behind a patch of rough terrain to cripple any attempt to charge into you.
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Post by adakai on Aug 16, 2017 13:40:45 GMT
In my own games, running a single full unit of non-pathfinder troops has been fine but with 2+ units you start to worry about positioning during deployment. Of course, Advanced Move + Desperate Pace might solve those problems and allow you to position better around terrain (I know it has helped me when I tried Thyron in Defenders). I agree that it would be fast and hit hard. My main worry is how well it performs against shooting armies. Then again, Halberdies might be cheap enough that losing half of them before contact with the enemy is OK if it leaves your Myrmidons untouched. I don't know what you plan to play this into but I wonder if you have enough punch to take on ARM lists. If not, I'd look at Skeryth Issyan and maybe Ghost Snipers. Mini feat Halbs can really pack a nasty punch. With most high arm sitting at 18-20 you can start to charge/CMA/Mini Feat to crack armor. I also think Vyros 1 lends himself to crack armor naturally with his feat. Griffons coming in at essentially weapon master pow 13's (under feat turn) definitely can do the trick as well. I think it will take a certain "know how" in making sure that your griffon missiles are getting into the targets you really want them to be attacking (i.e. clearing the path with your halbs + reforming them into melee of the targets you need to be to trigger flank) I'd say this list has play potential into a wide variety of match ups. It can deal with high infantry volumes because halbs are pretty nasty at clearing infantry. The feat gives you really good armor cracking/mat fixing potential (Griffons being mat 10 on the charge & Halbs just getting cma naturally). I think you worry about shooting for 1 round and then you're already in there. Advance move + desperate pace + reform while within shield wall gets you up the board w/ moderate ARM. The biggest concern for me is just the lack of pathfinder on the units (something I would need to play test to continue to develop better opinions on)
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Aug 17, 2017 8:57:12 GMT
I'd say this list has play potential into a wide variety of match ups. It can deal with high infantry volumes because halbs are pretty nasty at clearing infantry. The feat gives you really good armor cracking/mat fixing potential (Griffons being mat 10 on the charge & Halbs just getting cma naturally). I think you worry about shooting for 1 round and then you're already in there. Advance move + desperate pace + reform while within shield wall gets you up the board w/ moderate ARM. The biggest concern for me is just the lack of pathfinder on the units (something I would need to play test to continue to develop better opinions on) That makes sense. Halberdiers might not trivially remove ARM 23 Khador clamjacks but they do pack a punch when delivered right. As for two Units without Pathfinder, I think you will be fine. All your 'jacks can move through rough terrain without problems, so you just need enough space to squeeze a unit of Halberdiers through. From what I have seen, most tables allow this without too much fidgeting (the problem is running two max units AND a handful of 'jacks without Pathfinder).
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 17, 2017 12:06:10 GMT
I'd say this list has play potential into a wide variety of match ups. It can deal with high infantry volumes because halbs are pretty nasty at clearing infantry. The feat gives you really good armor cracking/mat fixing potential (Griffons being mat 10 on the charge & Halbs just getting cma naturally). I think you worry about shooting for 1 round and then you're already in there. Advance move + desperate pace + reform while within shield wall gets you up the board w/ moderate ARM. The biggest concern for me is just the lack of pathfinder on the units (something I would need to play test to continue to develop better opinions on) That makes sense. Halberdiers might not trivially remove ARM 23 Khador clamjacks but they do pack a punch when delivered right. As for two Units without Pathfinder, I think you will be fine. All your 'jacks can move through rough terrain without problems, so you just need enough space to squeeze a unit of Halberdiers through. From what I have seen, most tables allow this without too much fidgeting (the problem is running two max units AND a handful of 'jacks without Pathfinder). I just know vs stuff like my Ossyan list I'd just chuck 2 4" aoe of rough terrain right at the halbs. They'll most likely be funneled between terrain on the board and if i target the right ones I completely remove them from the fight for the round.
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Post by adakai on Aug 17, 2017 13:09:29 GMT
That makes sense. Halberdiers might not trivially remove ARM 23 Khador clamjacks but they do pack a punch when delivered right. As for two Units without Pathfinder, I think you will be fine. All your 'jacks can move through rough terrain without problems, so you just need enough space to squeeze a unit of Halberdiers through. From what I have seen, most tables allow this without too much fidgeting (the problem is running two max units AND a handful of 'jacks without Pathfinder). I just know vs stuff like my Ossyan list I'd just chuck 2 4" aoe of rough terrain right at the halbs. They'll most likely be funneled between terrain on the board and if i target the right ones I completely remove them from the fight for the round. Would be interesting to see but I've never really had too many issues with getting halbs there (even while facing the afg).
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 17, 2017 13:13:23 GMT
I just know vs stuff like my Ossyan list I'd just chuck 2 4" aoe of rough terrain right at the halbs. They'll most likely be funneled between terrain on the board and if i target the right ones I completely remove them from the fight for the round. Would be interesting to see but I've never really had too many issues with getting halbs there (even while facing the afg). If you do your advance move, desp pace, shield wall advance and repo to the 24" line you're in my advance and shoot range on the AFG. So bottom of 1 im lobbing to 4" AOE rough terrain into a unit of halbs. I'll probably kill the 2 I hit at POW 14 and the rest are jammed up next turn having to spend at least 10" of their movement to get out of the terrain.
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Post by adakai on Aug 17, 2017 13:32:59 GMT
Would be interesting to see but I've never really had too many issues with getting halbs there (even while facing the afg). If you do your advance move, desp pace, shield wall advance and repo to the 24" line you're in my advance and shoot range on the AFG. So bottom of 1 im lobbing to 4" AOE rough terrain into a unit of halbs. I'll probably kill the 2 I hit at POW 14 and the rest are jammed up next turn having to spend at least 10" of their movement to get out of the terrain. Lol if the rest are getting caught up in a 4" aoe (especially when I know the enemy is playing an AFG), I am having some serious issues with unit positioning haha which would be a completely different conversation.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 17, 2017 13:36:41 GMT
If you do your advance move, desp pace, shield wall advance and repo to the 24" line you're in my advance and shoot range on the AFG. So bottom of 1 im lobbing to 4" AOE rough terrain into a unit of halbs. I'll probably kill the 2 I hit at POW 14 and the rest are jammed up next turn having to spend at least 10" of their movement to get out of the terrain. Lol if the rest are getting caught up in a 4" aoe (especially when I know the enemy is playing an AFG), I am having some serious issues with unit positioning haha which would be a completely different conversation. If you go first I look where you put your halbs, I see 2 terrain pieces that you're gonna have to manuever them between and i deploy my AFG in a place knowing that's the choke point in which I can bottleneck you into a firing squad. If you have a pathfinder however... you can literally run through any terrain piece besides an obstruction which opens up the entire table and limits my ability to slow you down. I'm just saying... pathfinder opens up Vyros1 a lot, basically his whole army can be like " IDGAF about terrain"
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