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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 5, 2017 16:46:31 GMT
Let's talk about Seige. He has some nice answers to Ghost Fleet. Explosivo and Ground Pounder gives a good amount of RFP. Mage Sight offers some nice assassination against Denny1.
His feat doesn't wreck stuff, but against a force of Warjacks, he can pretty easily knock out a system on each jack. And high arm infantry gets obliterated.
He's reasonably durable, and will usually have Triumph along with him after the coming errata.
Some of our strongest guns are lightning based, so Storm Division is a nice way to go for him. Double Storm Strider can do some serious damage. The Lightning arcs are not optional, but the Striders do damage to high armor by themselves, so it doesn't hurt the damage potential. Storm Lances like his feat, and are amazing anyway.
However, Seige can be teched for the Mirror Match. During feat turn, some good guns can demolish Storm Lances.
So let's dojo with pSeige a bit. Do you play him? What kind of lists can he work with?
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Post by Aegis on Aug 5, 2017 17:12:22 GMT
I don't actually think that Lances will be the primary problem after the nerf... They'll remain playable, but I'm not sure they will be as dominant as they are now.
I think that Siege1 is one of the casters that synergizes best with Stormwall. He has low focus so doesn't want tons of jacks, but Explosivo and Mage Sight can do wonders for a Stormwall.
Actually, I think Gravediggers are best for him. Foxhole is great for Tr. Long Gunners, and the feat helps with the lack of high damage the list has. Gravediggers also permits Rangers that are great with Siege1.
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Post by snarlyyow on Aug 5, 2017 17:58:34 GMT
I actually think the Hurricane is better with Siege than the Stormwall. The slam guns slam on a hit, which means damage isn't rolled until after the move. So you can feasibly always hit two models with RFP on the slams. Then the lower power guns have a native AOE so everything in there RFPs as well. Explosivo is one of the few 1 cost upkeeps, so you can swap it between the Hurricane and Siege's Ground Pounder.
I think, just like in MKii, the trencher theme force is the way to go. You really want Rangers with Siege and GD gives them to him.
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Post by Mydnight on Aug 5, 2017 19:45:56 GMT
I actually think the Hurricane is better with Siege than the Stormwall. The slam guns slam on a hit, which means damage isn't rolled until after the move. So you can feasibly always hit two models with RFP on the slams. Then the lower power guns have a native AOE so everything in there RFPs as well. Explosivo is one of the few 1 cost upkeeps, so you can swap it between the Hurricane and Siege's Ground Pounder. I think, just like in MKii, the trencher theme force is the way to go. You really want Rangers with Siege and GD gives them to him. I also think that Siege needs rangers but that's the problem -- trencher theme force doesn't allow Jr, which unfortunately he also needs.
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Post by Aegis on Aug 5, 2017 22:52:10 GMT
I actually think the Hurricane is better with Siege than the Stormwall. The slam guns slam on a hit, which means damage isn't rolled until after the move. So you can feasibly always hit two models with RFP on the slams. Then the lower power guns have a native AOE so everything in there RFPs as well. Explosivo is one of the few 1 cost upkeeps, so you can swap it between the Hurricane and Siege's Ground Pounder. I think, just like in MKii, the trencher theme force is the way to go. You really want Rangers with Siege and GD gives them to him. Explosivo removes from play only the model directly hit, so models un-directly hit by the slams or models inside AoEs are not removed from play. That's why I prefer Stormwall for Explosivo. Stormwall has more # of attacks, generating more RfP and more POW 8 magical AoEs with his all straight big gun+chaincannons (2+2d3) than Hurricane's 4 cannons (that also "waste" partially the AoEs). Ground Pounder, instead, works since it's not really an AoE, but Siege makes single attack rolls versus all models in the area, potentially directly hitting all of them singularly, and so generating multiple explosivo AoEs and RfP.
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Post by pixh on Aug 5, 2017 23:20:20 GMT
Seige1 is a mixed bag for me. He has some stuff going for him and then not so much. His gun and Ground Pounder are great, no complaints.
Individually I like all his spells, but he comes with 6 focus. None of his spells are BG friendly; Force Hammer is a good assassination spell still costs 4; Rift is a decent denial space spell still costs 3; and it is not often I leave Mage Sight in one spot. So not much effeciency.
His feat's effect is nice, but it debuffs enemies. At a 12" (14" with squire) and a 14/17/18 box with tough trying to apply it can put him in assassination range.
Also he does not help his army's accuracy or it's ability to crack armor outside his feat.
I do want to try him out in Gravediggers along with H1 and H3. The list I am thinking is Stormwall, Triumph, and Lancer, max Trencher LGs with UA, a Blockhouse, and Trencher Jr with Grenadier. I will fill the rest in once the theme and models are released.
Explosivo triggers on the model directly hit and boxed by a models ranged weapon. AoE and collateral hits won't trigger Explosivo.
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Post by snarlyyow on Aug 6, 2017 19:50:14 GMT
I actually think the Hurricane is better with Siege than the Stormwall. The slam guns slam on a hit, which means damage isn't rolled until after the move. So you can feasibly always hit two models with RFP on the slams. Then the lower power guns have a native AOE so everything in there RFPs as well. Explosivo is one of the few 1 cost upkeeps, so you can swap it between the Hurricane and Siege's Ground Pounder. I think, just like in MKii, the trencher theme force is the way to go. You really want Rangers with Siege and GD gives them to him. Explosivo removes from play only the model directly hit, so models un-directly hit by the slams or models inside AoEs are not removed from play. That's why I prefer Stormwall for Explosivo. Stormwall has more # of attacks, generating more RfP and more POW 8 magical AoEs with his all straight big gun+chaincannons (2+2d3) than Hurricane's 4 cannons (that also "waste" partially the AoEs). Ground Pounder, instead, works since it's not really an AoE, but Siege makes single attack rolls versus all models in the area, potentially directly hitting all of them singularly, and so generating multiple explosivo AoEs and RfP. You might be right about the "directly hit" part. I'm reading it and reading it trying to figure it out: "If the affected model directly hits and boxes a model with an attack from a ranged weapon, center a 3" AOE on the boxed model, then remove that model from play. Models in the AOE are hit and suffer an unboostable POW8 magical blast damage roll." If the weapon is already an AOE, and if it does Directly Hit, are models in the AOE considered Directly Hit as well? I looked up the rules (Prime pg. 52) and the other models are not directly hit. So sad. So maybe a Cyclone is order? I dunno. The Cyclone has better range and POW then the Stormwall, and at 13 points it seems okay. But then you're teching specifically for ghost fleet which seems bad. I can't think of any other matchups where a Cyclone or, God forbid, two would ever be warranted.
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Post by Sarcastastic on Aug 6, 2017 20:35:16 GMT
That could also be helpful into Grymkin I imagine. Prevent Hollowmen recursion as well as prevent corpse collection on their dudes. RFP prevents corpses, right? On top of apparently a pair of Cyclones are really handy with Caine3. It's why I'm magnetizing mine. Gonna surprise people at my FLGS with Cyclone plays!
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Post by Aegis on Aug 6, 2017 23:18:21 GMT
Explosivo removes from play only the model directly hit, so models un-directly hit by the slams or models inside AoEs are not removed from play. That's why I prefer Stormwall for Explosivo. Stormwall has more # of attacks, generating more RfP and more POW 8 magical AoEs with his all straight big gun+chaincannons (2+2d3) than Hurricane's 4 cannons (that also "waste" partially the AoEs). Ground Pounder, instead, works since it's not really an AoE, but Siege makes single attack rolls versus all models in the area, potentially directly hitting all of them singularly, and so generating multiple explosivo AoEs and RfP. You might be right about the "directly hit" part. I'm reading it and reading it trying to figure it out: "If the affected model directly hits and boxes a model with an attack from a ranged weapon, center a 3" AOE on the boxed model, then remove that model from play. Models in the AOE are hit and suffer an unboostable POW8 magical blast damage roll." If the weapon is already an AOE, and if it does Directly Hit, are models in the AOE considered Directly Hit as well? I looked up the rules (Prime pg. 52) and the other models are not directly hit. So sad. So maybe a Cyclone is order? I dunno. The Cyclone has better range and POW then the Stormwall, and at 13 points it seems okay. But then you're teching specifically for ghost fleet which seems bad. I can't think of any other matchups where a Cyclone or, God forbid, two would ever be warranted. Yes, models into the AoE are not directly hit, only the original target in the middle is. On Cyclones, maybe they would be better than Stormwall just for Explosivo exploiting, but as you already noticed that is not necessary against every list, and anyway the low focus of Siege makes him want to have a small battlegroup, not a big one. That means that Stormwall is generically better, since it provides many different things at once (high number of attacks for Explosivo, high damage output for ARM cracking, staying power, etc...) while requiring very little focus from Siege (with Arlan you can fill it with just 1 focus). In general, I think Siege1 synergizes so well with Stormwall that is difficult to look for anything else... Maybe just the new Triumph, since it seems to be able to work quite well even with just Power Up, expecially on Siege due to the bond.
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Post by bluebarren on Aug 7, 2017 3:09:20 GMT
What themes does he work well in? I found that the squire was a huge boon for him, especially for extending his feat, so would anyone think that sons of the tempest or gravediggers may be out for him? Or can he work well with the smaller control area?
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Aug 7, 2017 3:35:20 GMT
What themes does he work well in? I found that the squire was a huge boon for him, especially for extending his feat, so would anyone think that sons of the tempest or gravediggers may be out for him? Or can he work well with the smaller control area? He really wants the bigger control area. He could probably do Heavy Metal pretty happily. 74/75 Seige 28* -Triumph 18 (CID) -Stormwall 39 -Squire 0 Junior 0 -Charger 9 Runewood 0 Storm Strider 18 Storm Strider 18 If tons of Rfp is needed, Seige can cast Explosivo on himself, ground pound, then swap it to the Stormwall. After the Stormwall activates, Junior can apply Arcane Shield to it. The list can handle infantry, has oodles of magic guns and rfp, can tear up armor, and doesn't stress Seige's focus too much. Runewood and a Strider could be swapped for Jakes and some Chargers depending on preferences.
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Post by slinkdawg on Aug 23, 2017 19:58:08 GMT
The past couple weeks, I have been playing siege with this list. It's basically a tweaked nemo3 list.
Cygnar - Siege1 lightning
Theme: Heavy Metal 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army 18 / 20 Specialist
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane - WJ: +28 - Squire - PC: 0 - Hurricane - PC: 39 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28)
Storm Strider - PC: 18 Storm Strider - PC: 18
Captain Arlan Strangewayes - PC: 4 Journeyman Warcaster - PC: 0 - Firefly - PC: 8 Lieutenant Allison Jakes - PC: 0 - Firefly - PC: 8
Sword Knights - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8
I think Siege list building is basically: 1) bring a RAT fixer (Storm strider in this case) 2) bring lots of high POW, boostable guns 3) try to bring 1 unit for SR 2017 scenarios
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 24, 2017 8:49:00 GMT
The Problem I find when trying to build Siege 2 lists is that he really wants both Rangers and the Squire, rat 6 is really mopey, especially as he cannot aim for his ground pounder, and he really wants the Squire for the extra control range for Mage sight, the re-roll on Force Hammers and the extra focus, unfortunately no theme allows for Rangers and Squire
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Post by pvtjoker on Aug 29, 2017 1:10:14 GMT
I know Gravediggers is coming out and will occupy a lot of attention, but I have recently been using a Siege1 Storm Division List that I have found very entertaining.
Siege 1 Storm Division
Siege 1 - Defender (and I can't wait for the new Triumph) - Cyclone - Squire (Free) Junior - Firefly Storm Strider Storm Blade Capt (Free) Storm Lances Storm Blades - UA Storm Callers Storm Callers (Free) Storm Tower Objective (Fuel Cache)
I have played this into a number of lists lately and it has been pretty strong in a lot of ways. I'm not pretending that it doesn't have weak points. but there are a lot of good aspects.
Storm Callers have tons of magic shots, especially if you can coordinate Surge and Triangulation which isn't that hard with 8 conductors. Between Superconduction and aiming (basically a 20 in range for special attacks) they are firing at Rat 10 and ignore most range defenses, Steath, and incorporeal. Between them and the eleaps/lightning generators it just melts swaths of infantry and pretty much any solos you want dead. I also don't feel too bad about sending them in to contest as a sacrifice solo.
Stormblades in a Foxhole with a Covering Fire in front of it help to deliver them to the fight. Keeping the SBC near them keeps them from jamming each other up. I tried doing the Stormblade/Storm Lance cascade the first few games, but I felt like I was in my own way too much and it negatively affected my scenario presence. Superconduction acts as RAT fixer if you need it.
I put this together for Dark Host originally because of the anti-stealth, anti-recursion, and armor piecing anti-infantry. It has actually done well with most dude spam armies because of all the infantry hate, but it has also done well into a number of armor lists. I used to find Siege in a precarious assassination spot after he Feats, but I've gotten in the habit of making sure he ends Feat turn in Foxhole with the Strider and Cyclone moving to block charges/LOS to him.
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Post by lamoron on Aug 29, 2017 9:58:27 GMT
The next list I'll try.
Siege - Squire - Centurion - Firefly - Firefly - Firefly Storm Strider Storm Strider Journeyman - Firefly Jakes - Firefly Arlan Mechaniks (min) Mechaniks (min)
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