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Post by daersalon on Aug 14, 2017 17:42:42 GMT
I play:
Thyra (Flameguard Theme) - Blood of Martyrs - Sanctifier FlameBringers (max) Flamebringers (max) Daughters (ambush) Daughters Full TFG - officer and standard (free) Nicea (free) Pyrrhus (free) Wrack Vassal
It just plays so fast with cav on both flanks aand ambushing daughters. A circle player with Una2 and the griffins was bricking up, feeling out threatened....
Usually cav gets into the opponents back field on turn two, and casters really dislike cavalry in their rear and in charge range... It's threats gives the opponent pause.
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Aug 14, 2017 18:57:57 GMT
So, I earlier asked about Vigilant vs Devout. After my first game, a discussion with my opponent and a fellow Protectorate player, and seeing some of your lists, I'm wondering if either is really necessary. Perhaps just BoM and a Templar? Is it important for this list to have a sanctifier or is he just there because we have bodies to fuel it? Thoughts?
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Post by daersalon on Aug 15, 2017 9:30:56 GMT
In my list, a sanctifier works well. Thyra really is more focus starved than most, and having a self sufficient Jack is a great benefit. It also means the list has some game into Cryx swarms, and the sanctifier removing incorporeal and a nice reach magic weapon close to it keeps things like their battle engine at bay.
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 15, 2017 12:00:22 GMT
Yeah would have to agree with the having a self seficient jack. Thyra likes a strong independent jack that needs no caster.
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Post by gianttourtiere on Aug 15, 2017 12:02:02 GMT
I never had a Sanctifier with her but I can see it being good for the reasons above. Also, Grymkin bring Incorporeal Gremlin Swarms so the Sanctifier's abilities are nice there.
I never tried her without at least on Shield Guard in the list. It may be that her Stealth is enough to keep her safe from ranged assassination on its own, but she's not really a 'hide way at the back' caster I like having the extra layer of defense for her.
What are you trying to fit in by cutting the Devout?
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Aug 16, 2017 13:44:39 GMT
to be honest? I am not really sure. Just looking at options... If I take BoM and a Templar, I can run 2x flamebringers, 2x daughters, 1 full unit of TFG,3 free support solo's (Nicia, Pyrrhus, Vassal) one vassal I pay for and a wrack.
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Post by gianttourtiere on Aug 17, 2017 1:24:00 GMT
The only issue I would have is that the Templar can't both wreck face and hang out where it can help keep Thyra safe a lot of the time.
It might be fine though - if you try it out, please report back!
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Aug 17, 2017 13:04:33 GMT
I played into Trolls double gargantuan list (mountain and glacier king) using the early devout, BoM, Sanctifier version of this list. Lost as I just could not get damage into his models. I knew it would be a bad drop into him but it was the only list I brought last night. His list negated Grievous wounds, healed upon taking damage under feat, and there was just to much sitting around his caster for me to get to him with my Flame Bringer unit and ambushing Daughters...
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 21, 2017 1:10:34 GMT
I am really considering running this with her:
Thyra (Interdiction theme) Guardian BoM min chior Max errants (occultation goes here) 2 Knights e with UA 2 Max Cinerators Knights E Senny Wrack 2 Mechanics
I feel like you really want an arc node for stranglehold. Its such a fantastic lockdown spell in the current meta. With SoD you can have cinerators swinging at Pow 14 or Knights E and Pow 15 when prodded. All removing tough and with Carnage all at Mat 9. Her feat helps deliver the entire army. I don't now if vinny just flat runs this theme better but I honestly think the combination of SoD and stranglehold add enough to her toolkit to justify taking her instead. The more I look at her the more I want to put her on the table. Blood of martyrs is just disgusting with SoD, Chior, and if HoV gets activated. Pow 22 blessed and GW with a 10" non charging threat range thanks to bond and Feat. I really want to put this on the table.
I really think she wants to be able to plop out stranglehold whenever she can...makes me want a hierophant more....
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 21, 2017 14:45:42 GMT
[snip] I feel like you really want an arc node for stranglehold. Its such a fantastic lockdown spell in the current meta. With SoD you can have cinerators swinging at Pow 14 or Knights E and Pow 15 when prodded. All removing tough and with Carnage all at Mat 9. Her feat helps deliver the entire army. I don't now if vinny just flat runs this theme better but I honestly think the combination of SoD and stranglehold add enough to her toolkit to justify taking her instead. The more I look at her the more I want to put her on the table. Blood of martyrs is just disgusting with SoD, Chior, and if HoV gets activated. Pow 22 blessed and GW with a 10" non charging threat range thanks to bond and Feat. I really want to put this on the table. I really think she wants to be able to plop out stranglehold whenever she can...makes me want a hierophant more.... So I'm trying to get into the faction and I really want to run Thyra. I was thinking the same thing about strangle hold. But I want to also couple it with the Avatar. Get Avatar within 8" of priority heavy (or heavies) and get a strangle hold on them. Then with her teleport upkeep try to gtfo. I just think it'd be a real dirty combination for board control. Then there's just the simple fact that Avatar + SoD + choir + Carnage + 2" place seems just disgusting. Mat 10, Pow 23, 12" charge threat, free focus generation. Or if you really need it for delivery into magic guns, stealth.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 21, 2017 17:09:53 GMT
So I'm trying to get into the faction and I really want to run Thyra. I was thinking the same thing about strangle hold. But I want to also couple it with the Avatar. Get Avatar within 8" of priority heavy (or heavies) and get a strangle hold on them. Then with her teleport upkeep try to gtfo. I just think it'd be a real dirty combination for board control. Then there's just the simple fact that Avatar + SoD + choir + Carnage + 2" place seems just disgusting. Mat 10, Pow 23, 12" charge threat, free focus generation. Or if you really need it for delivery into magic guns, stealth. Hmmmmm I guess my issue is running avatar mean you are dropping 20 points that are not being invested to get free points. One thing to remember with stranglehold and thyra is unless you bring a hierophant and a wrack she is a best, upkeeping for 1, spending 2 to cast stranglehold, boosting to hit or damage or both, and then chilling on just 1 or 2 fury. You are only really going to get 1 reliable stranglehold off with her and putting the avatar up there for the gaze interaction is probably putting him in range of other heavies that can kill him. Stranglehold already prevents running and charging and tramples I just do not think the interaction is worth the investment. But its always worth a shot! I am currently on a wurmwood high so I have been falling in love with stranglehold...its such a fantastic spell.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 21, 2017 17:55:02 GMT
So I'm trying to get into the faction and I really want to run Thyra. I was thinking the same thing about strangle hold. But I want to also couple it with the Avatar. Get Avatar within 8" of priority heavy (or heavies) and get a strangle hold on them. Then with her teleport upkeep try to gtfo. I just think it'd be a real dirty combination for board control. Then there's just the simple fact that Avatar + SoD + choir + Carnage + 2" place seems just disgusting. Mat 10, Pow 23, 12" charge threat, free focus generation. Or if you really need it for delivery into magic guns, stealth. Hmmmmm I guess my issue is running avatar mean you are dropping 20 points that are not being invested to get free points. One thing to remember with stranglehold and thyra is unless you bring a hierophant and a wrack she is a best, upkeeping for 1, spending 2 to cast stranglehold, boosting to hit or damage or both, and then chilling on just 1 or 2 fury. You are only really going to get 1 reliable stranglehold off with her and putting the avatar up there for the gaze interaction is probably putting him in range of other heavies that can kill him. Stranglehold already prevents running and charging and tramples I just do not think the interaction is worth the investment. But its always worth a shot! I am currently on a wurmwood high so I have been falling in love with stranglehold...its such a fantastic spell. I just don't plan on running her in theme. I don't mind the idea of taking the wrack and hierophant. The combo is meant to allow Thyra to play far forward and threaten assassination while taking heavies out of the picture if possible. Now, again I don't even own the stuff yet but I just want to try.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 21, 2017 18:09:38 GMT
ForEver_Blight do you think running her in creators might could be a valid option? Something like: Thyra: Hierophant BoM Reckoner 2 Revengers Covenant Tristan -Reckoner Avatar 2 Vassals 2 Mechanics 2 Wracks Max Chior Revengers for cheap arc nodes/contesting models (and hit hard with SoD and Chior) 2 Reckoners for Damage on the approach, Its slow but her feat helps with threat range and Carnage makes all those jacks really accurate and the list hits like a ton of bricks. You can always use a mechanic or chior lacky to trigger HoV on BoM
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 21, 2017 18:43:06 GMT
I've been sitting her pondering it all day. (So I can figure out what i really want to buy first)
The only flaw I see in that set up is volume of attacks (due to not enough focus to hand out). So just don't try to drop it against infantry (though she can hand out take down). But it would be a ball of fun to play. Against a balanced list or a jack/beast heavy list it should fair quite well. The threat ranges would keep the enemy caster pressured. Though for what ever reason I want Roven and co. just for the cheap~ish shield guards.
Maybe drop the Reckoner under Tristan for two repenters (under tristan)? just in case of infantry hoard?
Edit - Or maybe the chain weapon thresher. Vanquisher? that one's not a straight trade though, 16 vs 17.
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Post by Andrivan on Aug 23, 2017 1:12:47 GMT
So, I earlier asked about Vigilant vs Devout. After my first game, a discussion with my opponent and a fellow Protectorate player, and seeing some of your lists, I'm wondering if either is really necessary. Perhaps just BoM and a Templar? Is it important for this list to have a sanctifier or is he just there because we have bodies to fuel it? Thoughts? In general, running a Vigilant or Devout with Thyra is a bad idea. The last thing that you want is a low def easily hit with a blast damage or electro leap warjack near your high Def low armour stealth caster. You're asking for a bad time. Use the terrain and her natural defenses to keep her safe and you'll do just fine. Spend those 9 points on items that will do real work and synergize well with her playstyle.
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