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Post by phantomsig on Aug 2, 2017 3:18:15 GMT
So i started playing warmachine with convergence, and i started playing convergence with Syntherion. The experience was a bit depressing, but picked up once i played with the other casters.
I've only recently started playing Syntherion again. And with my year or two of experience, he was an absolute blast, and an amazing caster. The Prime Axiom on feat turn, is absolutely brutal. And with Magnetic Hold and a Diffuser, has a whopping threat range of 14" (which is the best in the faction, Axis can do it too, but only on one turn).
My theme list at the moment is Syntherion PA Assimilator Assimilator Diffuser Diffuser Diffuser Corrolary Attunement Servitors Reflex Servitors Reflex Servitors Reflex Servitors ADO ADO Optifex Directive
- Three diffusers to help the synergy chain, and to guarantee the threat extension
- Two ADOs to have the option of magnetic hold wherever i need it
- Optifex Directive for magic weapon, and greater repair work (you could argue these guys are redundant due to auto-repair, but ive faced a 4 gremlin grymkin list and magic weapon is as important as ever).
My questions to you all: - What are your lists?
- Can Syntherion run two prime axioms?
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Post by seanster3000 on Aug 2, 2017 10:30:09 GMT
Here is my list. It is untested, but the idea is to have a bunch of hard hitting Heavies. While Syntherion runs the Prime Axiom very well, I beginning to like him more with more Jacks.
Syntherion Inverter Inverter Inverter Cipher Cipher Diffuser Galvanizer Corrolary Attunement Servitors Reflex Servitors Reflex Servitors Reflex Servitors ADO ADO Optifex Directive
The idea is the Galvanizer would start the Synergy chain, followed by the Ciphers, thus making the Inverters hitting at MAT9 and P+S23/20! This list doesn't really take advantage of Hot Shot, but you can throw it on the random Cipher to have his Bombardment be a boosted POW6.
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Post by Charles on Aug 2, 2017 11:23:34 GMT
I like Syntherion a lot as well. Really great spell list and decent support. Feat is not the best, but can be nice enough in the right circumstances.
I would not run 2xAxioms with Syntherion, I think Iron Mother does that way better.
The janky Syntherion list I run atm is:
Syntherion -Corollary -Modulator -Modulator -Modulator -Modulator -Modulator -Prime Conflux Mechanics 2xADO
Conflux boosts the Modulators range damage. I like the Modulators a lot actually. Plasma numbus is nice, they have 2 shots and 2 initials in melee, 5 of them helps start the synergy chain, and they are cheap so you can affort to lose 1 (with Reconstruct on) to start piece trading.
I used to like the Assimilators for their very good gun, but the jack is a little too expensive I think. Only 1 initial is not the best. Dies just as easy as Modulators. I Use to run the net-list from the start of mk3:
Iron Mother -Corollay -Prime Axiom -Assimilator -Assimilator -Assimilator
But once the lines close in and you lose a jack or two, the list just crumbles. Which the Modulator spam does not, to a certain degree.
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Post by Korianneder on Aug 2, 2017 12:09:10 GMT
I like Syntherion a lot as well. Really great spell list and decent support. Feat is not the best, but can be nice enough in the right circumstances. I would not run 2xAxioms with Syntherion, I think Iron Mother does that way better. The janky Syntherion list I run atm is: Syntherion -Corollary -Modulator -Modulator -Modulator -Modulator -Modulator -Prime Conflux Mechanics 2xADO Conflux boosts the Modulators range damage. I like the Modulators a lot actually. Plasma numbus is nice, they have 2 shots and 2 initials in melee, 5 of them helps start the synergy chain, and they are cheap so you can affort to lose 1 (with Reconstruct on) to start piece trading. I used to like the Assimilators for their very good gun, but the jack is a little too expensive I think. Only 1 initial is not the best. Dies just as easy as Modulators. I Use to run the net-list from the start of mk3: Iron Mother -Corollay -Prime Axiom -Assimilator -Assimilator -Assimilator But once the lines close in and you lose a jack or two, the list just crumbles. Which the Modulator spam does not, to a certain degree. There's some big differences between the Conflux/Modulator package and the Axiom/Assimilator package. You get two more modulators, but modulators and confluxes are just not that good. Modulators get 5 pow 14 melee attacks, but Assimilators get 4 pow 14 weapon master melee attacks. Assimilator ranged attacks do more damage even with ionization and are more accurate due to what they ignore, and with the axiom dragging in models the enemy will have fewer jacks by the time the lines actually get into melee. If you really want to run the conflux then the list you posted is about the best I found for him, but even then I'd never take him to any sort of tournament. Here's my current janky Syntherion list I've been trying. conflictchamber.com/#cc201b_-0id3d7d7dndBd4d5d5d5d5d5d5d5d5dCdedfdfdfdzConvergence Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Destruction Initiative (Syntherion 1) Forge Master Syntherion [+27] - Cipher [16] - Cipher [16] - Conservator [12] - Corollary [6] - Diffuser [6] - Galvanizer [5] - Galvanizer [5] - Galvanizer [5] - Galvanizer [5] - Galvanizer [5] - Galvanizer [5] - Galvanizer [5] - Galvanizer [5] Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex [2] Attunement Servitors [0(4)] Elimination Servitors [0(3)] Elimination Servitors [0(3)] Elimination Servitors [0(3)] Optifex Directive [4] The idea is to use it against Khador marauder spam, which means the axiom is out. The galvanizers get up to pow 15 under synergy so you get two boosted pow 15's per galvanizer which can do decent damage against a khador jack. The amount of jacks makes it easy to induct three focus to every single jack and even though a galvanizer dies easily, they're cheap and they can spread out. I'd rather a marauder spends their activation killing a 5 point light then a heavy warjack.
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Post by Charles on Aug 2, 2017 13:07:15 GMT
While I agree with you that my janky Syntherion list is not very good or could be played successfully in a tournament, I don't quite agree with your assessment.
The Modulators have Synergy, so potentially hit with PS17. And 2 more Jacks really matters. My meta has a lot of lists with heavy spam, so the amount of times assimilators gun is an advantage over the modulators is quite limited. 1 POW 13 vs. 2 POW12. I can't see how your math tells you the assimilator is better... against a Khador jack the assimilator does 4 damage, the modulator does 3+3=6. The more dice you roll, the more chances you have to get a spike.
I have played the Prime Axiom a lot competetively, and the amount of times it actually gets a drag off is very low. Many factions have tech to avoid this. Rhulic jacks cannot be pushed, Khador park their jacks behind the Devestator which can't be pushed, cloud walls, stealth models in the way, the list goes on. And then there is terrain as well. Every table I play on has at least a building and a linear obstacle. I love the Prime Axiom, don't get me wrong, and the treat of the drag is very good, but he is very different on the paper and on the table.
I like your list, just not with Syntherion. Why not play it with Lucant, who actually has a feat for the Galvanizers and positive charge, or even Axis who gives them bulldoze?
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Post by Korianneder on Aug 2, 2017 13:44:14 GMT
While I agree with you that my janky Syntherion list is not very good or could be played successfully in a tournament, I don't quite agree with your assessment. The Modulators have Synergy, so potentially hit with PS17. And 2 more Jacks really matters. My meta has a lot of lists with heavy spam, so the amount of times assimilators gun is an advantage over the modulators is quite limited. 1 POW 13 vs. 2 POW12. I can't see how your math tells you the assimilator is better... against a Khador jack the assimilator does 4 damage, the modulator does 3+3=6. The more dice you roll, the more chances you have to get a spike. I have played the Prime Axiom a lot competetively, and the amount of times it actually gets a drag off is very low. Many factions have tech to avoid this. Rhulic jacks cannot be pushed, Khador park their jacks behind the Devestator which can't be pushed, cloud walls, stealth models in the way, the list goes on. And then there is terrain as well. Every table I play on has at least a building and a linear obstacle. I love the Prime Axiom, don't get me wrong, and the treat of the drag is very good, but he is very different on the paper and on the table. I like your list, just not with Syntherion. Why not play it with Lucant, who actually has a feat for the Galvanizers and positive charge, or even Axis who gives them bulldoze? You can't compare melee damage output under Syntherion to melee damage output under Mother. That's why I looked at the jacks outside of a caster. You can just as easily take assimilators with Syntherion for pow 17 weapon masters. Also an assimilator should never be making only one attack role. If your opponent has infantry or jacks it's very easy to get two or three in the ground pound. The downside is you're spreading the damage around, but you're at a higher power and doing damage to models that are immune to lightning. That's important when Cygnar is one of the best factions in the game right now. It also doesn't rely on getting an ionization servitor within 5 inches of the target. Assimilators also deal with those stealth models that block drags. They deal with those trenchers that make cloud walls. The conflux is a worse axiom and the modulator is a worse assimilators. The only things they have goung for them is they are cheaper. Even just the threat of a drag is better than bringing the conflux. If my opponent hides his non pathfinder jack behind a wall or forest then that is good for me. I actually do use 8 galvanizers with Lucant. It's currently my ghost fleet drop. I'm using them with Syntherion because of Synergy and auto repair. I don't care about his feat. It's a decidedly meh feat. But pow 15 light jacks with 22 hit boxes that are at full functionality until they die for only 5 points is pretty good.
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Post by Charles on Aug 2, 2017 16:49:07 GMT
All fair points Have you played your Syntherion list?
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Post by Korianneder on Aug 2, 2017 17:14:53 GMT
I have a few times. I played it against Kromac2, Baldur2, and Vlad1. All the games pretty much went the same way. My opponent alphas me due to superior threat ranges and kills/damages 4 to 5 galvanizers. Then with synergy and induction I rebound and kill a large portion of the army. From there I grind out a victory, all of which so far have been scenario after my opponent has only one or two models left.
Syntherion gets better as the game goes on. Against Vlad1 he had to kill two heavies himself over the course of the game just to get them out of his zone.
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Post by hephaestus on Aug 7, 2017 19:36:19 GMT
I think people short the threat range in the PA on Synth's feat turn. With Magnetic Hold, a Diffuser, and tow cable shots, the true threat range is 5" + 3" + 2" + 2" + 11" = 23". The trick is in the wording of Dual Attack. You make your initial ranged at the same time as initial melee. I like to put Hot Shot on the PA, then look for a good target behind the front line that would have a clear lane if not for some chaff. Then charge the chaff. Use your boosted Accelespiker shots to murder the victim chaff, then reel in the 1-2 targets you really want to murder.
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Post by Korianneder on Aug 7, 2017 20:37:22 GMT
I think people short the threat range in the PA on Synth's feat turn. With Magnetic Hold, a Diffuser, and tow cable shots, the true threat range is 5" + 3" + 2" + 2" + 11" = 23". The trick is in the wording of Dual Attack. You make your initial ranged at the same time as initial melee. I like to put Hot Shot on the PA, then look for a good target behind the front line that would have a clear lane if not for some chaff. Then charge the chaff. Use your boosted Accelespiker shots to murder the victim chaff, then reel in the 1-2 targets you really want to murder. This seems good on paper but rarely works out in practice. In order to get the 12 inch charge you need both the diffuser and Syntherion to hit a single target and the diffuser had to not kill that target. So you'll also need an arc node up there. Then you have to directly face your charge target which dictates the firing arcs of the tow cables. It's cool when it works but you'll rarely get the full 23 inches. You already have a 19 inch just by trampling anyway. You lose one initial attack compared to charging but it's easier to position and it doesn't rely on two other models hitting a chaff model in your way.
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Post by themusicalcake on Aug 11, 2017 2:16:23 GMT
This thread (and especially the Conflux list!) Have inspired me to give a Syntherion Conflux list a shot: conflictchamber.com/#cc201b_-0id3dndBd9dododog5dCdfdfdgdgConvergence Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Destruction Initiative (Syntherion 1) Forge Master Syntherion [+27] - Conservator [12] - Corollary [6] - Inverter [15] - Modulator [10] - Modulator [10] - Modulator [10] - Prime Conflux [37] Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex [2] Elimination Servitors [0(3)] Elimination Servitors [0(3)] Reflex Servitors [0(4)] Reflex Servitors [0(4)] The plan is to use Hot Shot on the Conflux, to allow for use of the Coil before engage. Then, on T2 when it's most likely possible to engage, activate Syntherion's feat and charge in the Conflux, along with both of the servitors you just made. Use his Diffuser shots to allow your entire army to get in, then blow the majority of their list off the table. Originally I had a Cipher in there, but then I realized I'd gotten excited and forgot the Corollary. I'm gonna give this list a shot next time I play, see how well it goes.
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