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Post by ashurbanipal on Aug 28, 2017 13:25:43 GMT
Skin & Moans with The Child charges for free and punches it's enemy with 7 Mat7 Pow 23 Attacks (first one boosted). Without Child, in Menagerie Pow 21 is also possible.
Hollowmen with Heretic go up to Pow 16 i believe, King of Nothing offers Scything Touch . . .
There are several armor cracking possibilities - The Child in Menagerie with 2-3 Skin and Moans being the easiest, fully buffed they are one of the "biggest hammers" in the game for sure - threating 14" with tantrum and being able to get pathfinder by themselves or Wraithbane from the Cage Rager are also nice options on top of that.
I'm not much of a math techie, but on average rolls one Skin & Moans benefitting from Enrage, Abuse und Wrath should one-round one of these Arm19 Colossals i believe.
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Post by robobengt on Aug 29, 2017 13:09:47 GMT
An enraged Skin & Moans with abuse and wrath has a 91% chance to kill an ARM 21 mountain king.
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Post by robobengt on Aug 29, 2017 13:11:27 GMT
And a 96.8% chance to get a Stormwall...
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Post by ysthrall on Sept 1, 2017 8:18:00 GMT
Thanks for the suggestions. I slowed down a Hyperion with Piggybacks and then hit it with a 3-tokened Skin&Moans under Reckoning Arcana... Alas, poor Ret, their Mage Hunters got hit really badly with the nerf bat since I played them last...
Interesting thought that cropped up, is it possible and/or profitable to trigger an Arcana on your turn? I'm thinking of the "triggered when an enemy kills you" ones, using a free strike to do so. Given that they last a round, this would though prevent you from doing ne in your opponents next turn, which seems like a good way to get out of synch, given that I'm finding arcana timings to be triggered on opponents turns 2, 3 and 4.
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stibe
Light Addition
Posts: 62
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Post by stibe on Sept 1, 2017 9:24:55 GMT
It can be very profitable. If I'm against a caster where I don't need Ruin, I'll often go with Fortune's Path. Then I proc it on enemy turn if I can, and on my turn I'll casually be charging past your guys, you can either let me or take a freestrike, proc Reckoning and RIP.
Same thing with Sacrifice, if I need to heal something, I'll just bait freestrikes. One of my regular opponents actually caught onto this and wouldn't give me freestrikes to proc Reckoning. Though it made him go way behind on attrition, if he HAD procced it the game would have been over. So it can give your enemies nasty Catch-22s, which on a clocked game are very useful.
Also vs Countercharges etc, The Shadow can really let you trade up since you can proc it if they charge you.
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Post by Voodoogk on Sept 1, 2017 16:49:43 GMT
The King of Nothing is especially good at the free strike procs, since he gets to cast a spell out of activation. If you can give them a catch-22 that makes them kill a crabbit or a nearly dead rattler and the king gets to reposition before his activation with sands of fate, you're probably going to be able to do something sweet.
Played right I think Grymkin is the Catch-22 faction.
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Post by Bad_munkey on Sept 3, 2017 9:20:04 GMT
How about Heretic's fire wall and then walk some of them through it? Kind of. You don't get them on the initial damage roll, but if any survive that or hit their tough checks, you get them on the collateral damage.
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Post by gedditoffme on Sept 4, 2017 10:03:21 GMT
I've picked up the all in one box but trying to avoid large purchases. Is it possible to play without the death knell? Expensive Model not doing much for me, but the faction seems designed around it, and I have seen how powerful it is against me
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Post by ysthrall on Sept 4, 2017 14:14:55 GMT
It is frackin' expensive for the size of model (it's small for a battle engine), at £70.
It is, however, almost a linchpin piece for an infantry army, and anything apart from possibly the Dark Menagerie Theme.
Harvesting corpse tokens from your own guys as the enemy kills them allows your line to hit them fully charged. Otherwise you're hoping to pick some up when you get into combat.
And after the first game, no-one is going to lead with anything giving corpse tokens if they can possibly avoid it.....
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Post by gribble on Sept 4, 2017 15:44:03 GMT
It is, however, almost a linchpin piece for an infantry army, and anything apart from possibly the Dark Menagerie Theme. Interesting. My experience has largely been the opposite. For an infantry army, (unless piggybacks recursion or something) the +2 ARM has seemed largely irrelevant, and you don't really need the corpses so badly. They're only used by warbeasts, and you'll have less warbeasts needing them - a couple of units of Dread Rots should be able to keep your one or two heavies fuelled. For DM on the other hand, I've found the +2 ARM aura and ability to fully fuel a S&M every round with corpses to be pretty important.
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Post by trollsareblue on Oct 4, 2017 3:05:01 GMT
I played in a local SR this past weekend and went 3-0 with Wanderer DM, and Heretic Bump. I played the Heretic into Cryx (Gaspy3, Black Industries) and won 5-0, Wanderer into Cygnar (Haley1, Heavy Metal) and won 5-0, and Wanderer again into Khador (Hark, Jaws), winning 11-7 on turn 7. Practice makes a huge difference for Bump lists. My list has nearly 60 models, and I ended with 15 minutes on my clock when the game ended. I played the Wanderer much further up the table than I'd normally be comfortable with, and neither opponent bothered with more than the occasional pot shot at him due to his Trump, Star Crossed, Fog of War, and Crabbits. I know the Shroud Arcana doesn't get much love, but my Khador opponent hated it. Use of the Shroud denied him any kind of significant shooting advantage.
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Post by Cookielol on Oct 5, 2017 15:48:43 GMT
How about Heretic's fire wall and then walk some of them through it? I wanna say something about the rule says it cant...okay, just checked. This is how itll work. The Death Knell can only collect FRIENDLY living faction model corpse tokens, when a model is destroyed from a continuous effect (the "Dot" from the wall, on the next turn,) or when it does from an enemy attack/collateral damage from an enemy attack. So while its possible, its not worth the game (IMHO.) My $.02
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nusquam
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 2
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Post by nusquam on Jan 17, 2018 1:54:15 GMT
I'm 5/5 with my Grymkin, but don't be too impressed they were casual against returning/other fellow new players. I've been running DM with the Dreamer. It was one 35 point game, three 50 with DM, and one themeless. The first game Abyssal game set up an assassination against Skorne. The second and third was scenario/attrition v Skorn/Trollkin team. The 50p themeless was another caster-kill setup by AG against Retribution. The last was scenario too because World Ender Trollman could transfer so much damage. The biggest takeaways I got were: Units: - Death Knell: +2 ARM bubble tipped the CR and S&Ms armor enough to mitigate most damage. Sacrificing Rots to a frontline charge to trade up/get corpse tokens happened in 4 games. They either ignored Weapon Masters or gave me tokens. I forgot about Entropic Force against the Trolls; that would have been a game changer.
- Skin and Moans: Obvious choice. Mine has killed two casters and a Mountain King. Lurker+Mirage+2" reach slingshots it across the board.
- Rattler: I don't see these often but counter charge+overtake+berserk has taken several units off the board.
- Crabbits: Haven't used shield guard once, but have been great Fury batteries early on and charge blockers later.
- Dread Rots: Unless they get RFP'd at the right time they and a Death Knell will always do well even if they just keep dying. The corpse tokens flow.
- Cage Rager: Another obvious choice for a spell heavy caster. It hits like a truck too. A wraithbane at the right time is terrifying.
- Gremlin Swarms: Another obvious choice for serenity and contesting. I've also been using them to block charges my heavies against things that don't have magic melee to set myself up for a charge.
- Twilight Sisters were nice but Lady Rose has been a bit better. Getting her timing down is key. She wants to activate close to last to cull Fury or grant another attack. I haven't used Enrage yet because a fully charged S&M with another attack just does so much more.
- I just tried Glimmer Imp and he combo'd so well with a counter charging Rattler thanks to Paralyzing Gaze; it killed a whole unit of Fennblades. Scoop is hilarious too.
Arcana
- Sacrifice: I've taken it every match. Baiting that free strike to trigger it won me the game against the Elves.
- All Fall Down: Every match had units/models immune to knock down. I used it once and I can't even remember it well because of how little impact it had.
- I've taken almost all the others but had no good chance to use them well. I like the potential Desolation has though. I want to think it's better than Pandemonium because of the offensive options too.
Thats the long and short of my experiences thus far.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jan 17, 2018 2:34:50 GMT
Nusquam, unless I am very much mistaken, you cannot have Berserk & Overtake trigger when Countercharging. Berserk and Overtake both specify that they can only trigger during Combat Action, which is on your turn.
Otherwise...yep. Agree with almost all of this except considering Desolation superior to Pandemonium. While getting to choose the terrain is neat, I've just never been impressed, whereas Pandemonium is a really simple Arcana to wrap your head around and can completely screw the opponent.
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nusquam
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 2
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Post by nusquam on Jan 17, 2018 2:44:14 GMT
Combat action =/= Charge? If so then whoops. There was a seasoned player who explained it to me so I took his word on it because I was all confused on the timing of the rules.
I just read the battle college break down of countercharge and it does specify no "during combat action", so you're right. Oh well. There's a lot we got wrong I'm sure.
Hmn that does make the Rattler a bit less appealing. Only able to kill one model potentially. I suppose that makes it less of a reactive blender when using SaD, and more or a jamming unit/screening unit to pull into melee to assist other things.
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