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Post by smartalek on Jul 31, 2017 19:40:59 GMT
One of the ultimate problems in comparing faction, forces, characters, spells, armies, or whatever grouping of whatever game online or IRL is that nobody can truly vouch for the actual skill of any player in a non-professional* game, even themselves. *professional games are played at a high enough skill level that many times, the benefits of different groups or characters display themselves much more starkly. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. There's no such thing as "professional" Warmachine. Nobody does this for a living. No on's skill is such that it might be "professional" by any definition. At best, PP staff playing teh game is the closest we get to any rational meaning of "professional," though I know this is probably not what you meant. Competitive? Sure. Professional? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Side question, what if my meta consists of national and international event winners? But what if we also play casually an not competitively? Better still, what if one of those local's competitive way of playing is incredibly casual, to the point where he makes lists for events based on requests of "play X?" What if, on the other hand, a very active play group is also very new, but holds many events? You're producing event results, but without respect to "skill level." So constrain yourself to large events, but what is "large?" Further, such events are necessarily limited, both in the number of players that can play in an event, and the ability of players to travel to events at all. You can catalog event results and try to tease out trends, but that's about the best you can do. How do you control for facts such as certain "big names" being cheaters, or at least engaging in questionable play? Doesn't that throw a false positive into any compilation of events? Wow man, no need to be so hostile. Provengreil clearly meant that we have to take the data with a grain of salt since we don't know how competitive the games were, nor the caliber of the players.
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Post by paradox on Jul 31, 2017 19:50:10 GMT
It's like a gag reflex.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Jul 31, 2017 19:52:00 GMT
Caster
| Wins | Losses | Harbinger | 3 | 1 | Amon | 3 | 2 | Grand Scrutator Severius | 0 | 1 | Feora2 | 1 | 2 | Hierarch Severius | 1 | 0 |
I have been tracking all my games since I picked up Protectorate again in early April. This includes SR 2016, SR 2017 CID testing, and SR 2017 full. The above results are a mixture of all three. Harbinger and Amon are my tournament pair, and I have my strongest lists with them.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Aug 1, 2017 2:38:43 GMT
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Aug 1, 2017 8:22:58 GMT
Updated
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 1, 2017 10:02:41 GMT
It's really interesting to see that even without a great feat, harbinger is still doing quite well. She's certainly still got game as i have found personally, interested to hear what others are running with her?
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Aug 1, 2017 10:22:49 GMT
SR 2017 only
Severius 1 - 4 wins (Makeda 2, Caine 3, Rask, Tanith) 1 loss (Una 2) Vindictus - 1 win (Barnabus) Testament - 1 win (Kreoss 3)
3 of those games are tournament games, as there have been only one SR2017 tournament so far here (wins against Caine 3 and Kreoss 3, loss against Una 2)
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Post by gargs454 on Aug 1, 2017 14:06:14 GMT
Someone winning in a Masters tournament could have faced a few unskilled opponents who are just there to enjoy the weekend instead of competing. But then I would still say 6-0 for that player instead of 4-0 for example. These numbers are most meaningful when both players are equally skilled at the game and have the same level of mastery of their lists. That's rather impossible to guarantee. It should be seen as a collective thing I guess. An overall trend of caster usage and their winrates. If something weird pops-up like someone reporting a 20-0 rate with Kreoss2 for example, I would like to know the list and the matchups played. The dream..... To be fair, I've never actually lost with Kreoss2 As for Harby, she's always had a great toolbox. The feat was just an amazing feat on top of a great toolkit, so no surprise really that people are still able to do well with her. I do think she's even more difficult for new players now though since a newer player could previously use her feat as a nice crutch (especially against Hordes). Now it requires a bit more skill and careful decision making, etc. As for results from "competitive" vs. "casual" play, etc., I think all results are useful* though obviously some results can be more instructive than others. Ultimately, assuming that most of us are not going to WTC or are going to be playing for the World Championship at L&L, etc., I think only table time can really be a true barometer, but results from everyone can be something that we look at when deciding "Hmmm, people are having a lot of success with Vinny, maybe I should give him a look." But even tournament results in my meta are not very instructive. We don't really have a Cryx presence at the moment. And at the start of Mk III, if you judged the strengths of factions/casters by tournament results, you'd think that Skorne was OP. It just so happens that the far and away best player in our meta also plays Skorne, so even though Skorne was at a disadvantage when Mk III released, he was still winning.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 1, 2017 14:22:35 GMT
Neither have I, but winning one real game and barely eking out a win against a noob isn't a fantastic track record. I also haven't failed to hit a home run in decades.
I main Harbinger come tourney time, I even have the paladins on the field sometimes when I do it. I still want a feat that I can use against someone other than non GF cryx.
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Post by Scrub_of_Menoth on Aug 1, 2017 14:23:59 GMT
Alright ladies and gents, I've stickied this thread as moquan brought up a good point that it will be useful to us.
That being said, just a reminder to everyone that a stickied thread will be more visible and will remain for a good long while, thus civility and good discussion is important. Sure, use a bucket please and avoid keyboard emesis.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 1, 2017 15:06:15 GMT
Also people really need to learn the intended format here. Copy the list from the previous post and then add your recent wins and losses to it. Since nobody has done that so far I'll take it from the OP.
Amon = 28-22 Durst Durant2 = 2-0 Feora1= 3-0 (Street) Feora2 = 1-2 Feora3= 2-0 (Street) Kreoss1 = 2-0 (Street) Kreoss2 Kreoss3 = 2-2 (Street) Malekus Reznik1 = 1-0 Reznik2 = 5-2 (Street) Severius1 = 4-3 Severius2 = 7-7 High Reclaimer = 1-6 Testament Harbinger = 9-2 Thyra = 5-2 Vindictus = 13-2
Notice I've also noted which caster's I modified so that its easy to reference. Keep it going and lets not take this too seriously. I do think that limiting it to tournament games was one way that other factions made their list better however that worked better when we had a larger sample size on the PP boards.
Have fun with it dudes.
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Post by ziggyqubert on Aug 1, 2017 15:38:07 GMT
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Post by gargs454 on Aug 1, 2017 15:47:28 GMT
Neither have I, but winning one real game and barely eking out a win against a noob isn't a fantastic track record. I also haven't failed to hit a home run in decades. I main Harbinger come tourney time, I even have the paladins on the field sometimes when I do it. I still want a feat that I can use against someone other than non GF cryx. Aye, I was being sarcastic as I haven't actually run him, and frankly, at this point it would be quite a while before I pick him up as there are too many other better looking options.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Aug 1, 2017 17:03:11 GMT
if we could, I'd like people to add battle reports to their tournament wins and losses. It's even more awesome when there are photographs of what everything looks like before or after the turns.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Aug 1, 2017 20:06:02 GMT
Alright ladies and gents, I've stickied this thread as moquan brought up a good point that it will be useful to us.
That being said, just a reminder to everyone that a stickied thread will be more visible and will remain for a good long while, thus civility and good discussion is important. Thanks for the sticky, I actually had to search for the topic, didn't expect to stickied so soon. Awesome! Battle reports of interesting games, as in, very difficult matchups would be nice. Someone finding a Cygnar (Haley2) drop for example. But I am not sure if this will be the correct thread to post it...
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