|
Post by schostoppa1 on Mar 11, 2017 16:07:59 GMT
Terminus yes. But im talking just the Theme as is. There are obviously casters that can fill a niche to fill a specific counter. Airburst though is perfect for taking out machine wraiths, blackbane, pitol wraiths, rengrave. eIrusk can quickly even the points by removing our free solos. Then it really does become a recursion game. With 7foc and a reduced need to cast his spells vs our theme lets him do so and still fuel a jack or two. Those jacks with teminus will be a problem unless he directly commits. Which will be hard to do given eIrusks feat means you have to weather a bullet storm for an extra turn. Which Fire For Effect aoes love.
|
|
npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
|
Post by npe on Mar 11, 2017 16:23:57 GMT
Terminus yes. But im talking just the Theme as is. There are obviously casters that can fill a niche to fill a specific counter. Airburst though is perfect for taking out machine wraiths, blackbane, pitol wraiths, rengrave. eIrusk can quickly even the points by removing our free solos. Then it really does become a recursion game. With 7foc and a reduced need to cast his spells vs our theme lets him do so and still fuel a jack or two. Those jacks with teminus will be a problem unless he directly commits. Which will be hard to do given eIrusks feat means you have to weather a bullet storm for an extra turn. Which Fire For Effect aoes love. Airburst was what actually got me interested in the wraith engine because it makes your incorporeal models immune to it. This also protects Rengrave indirectly because you can sacrifice Blackbanes to keep Rengrave alive.
|
|
|
Post by schostoppa1 on Mar 11, 2017 17:05:53 GMT
Immune? Other than the +2 Arm bubble from wraith i guess im not seeing it. Would love some extra info. a Pistol wraith becomes 14/14 with tough. imho thats definately within reasonable threat to be killed. i would argue it may be worth the boosted attack/damage vs blackbane or a pistol wraith in some isntances. Just the pistol wraith dead would save a jack 1 focus. The bang for your buck would be vs machine wraiths. Denial of senario, plus the payoff of not having a jack fed or out of position would easily be worth the focus cost and much easier to kill.
|
|
|
Post by lordsizzlor on Mar 11, 2017 17:41:07 GMT
Hey Deller I feel like were getting some wires crossed, and Im not sure its helping the conversation.
For example I mention that no ghost fleet list should ever have problems with manikins due to the 20" threat on riflemen. To which you reply Denny is better because she shuts down mannikins... So do all the lists; Manikins are a not problem model for the fleet to deal with.
We both agree that Denny is better at dealing with 6+ heavies but when we move the conversation to other areas like how shade3 feat is better vs troops and cav you just skip over that and bring it back around to how here feat is better then heavies. .... total agreed 100% true and not the point.
I mention how Shade3 is better a delivering more troops to the enemy you just reply saying Denny is better at delivering more troops to the enemy... it's not making for the most dynamic of conversation.
No one has disputed the Denny is a fantastic choice for the fleet but people are interested in talking and learning more about other options that the fleet has and other tools it can bring to bear. After all non Denny fleet lists have made it to some of the top tables. So untill your willing to allow that Denny isn't the best into every single possible match-up I am not sure how to proceed with this conversation.
|
|
|
Post by tanarii on Mar 11, 2017 17:43:25 GMT
Well.... because Unhallowed means they don't suffer blast damage while incorporeal, and therefore ignore Airburst entirely?
|
|
|
Post by schostoppa1 on Mar 11, 2017 17:58:12 GMT
Aaaaahhhhhhh.....Ya. Totally didnt read into that. That is pretty legit. Well played.
|
|
|
Post by schostoppa1 on Mar 11, 2017 18:06:13 GMT
Would the Wraith engine gain tough as well? Im reading it as a yes.
|
|
npe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 221
|
Post by npe on Mar 11, 2017 18:15:28 GMT
Would the Wraith engine gain tough as well? Im reading it as a yes. Indeed, and no knockdown since it's a battle engine
|
|
|
Post by skathrex on Mar 13, 2017 12:59:12 GMT
Great work in general
Just a quick note to the Skorne match you posted. Extoller gives 1 Modell eyless sight not the Unit. And when you CRA every model has to be able to hit your target. Without eyless sight on everyone they can't CRA Denny, just shoot her once.
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Mar 13, 2017 13:10:24 GMT
Great work in general Just a quick note to the Skorne match you posted. Extoller gives 1 Modell eyless sight not the Unit. And when you CRA every model has to be able to hit your target. Without eyless sight on everyone they can't CRA Denny, just shoot her once. You are correct, not sure why I thought the CRA rules changed in Mark3. Not eating Eyeless sighted Cannoneer shots was also a priority though and considering the only way Morghul2 really beats Deneghra1 is by killing her, I feel like hiding as far back as possible until Feat turn is still the right call in this situation.
|
|
|
Post by skathrex on Mar 13, 2017 14:40:33 GMT
I agree, the Cannoneer shot still hurts like hell, so I agree with your decision. I just wanted to state it, so everyone can avoid a misplay in the future (like I did when trying to shoot something with my reviers)
|
|
|
Post by bfdhud on Mar 14, 2017 18:50:42 GMT
How does this list deal with High Arm. It seems like you're totally reliant on Denny to feat or debuff and Nightmare?? to do the damage?
|
|
|
Post by skittles on Mar 14, 2017 22:47:25 GMT
My main plan for high armor with ghost fleet is to shoot the caster behind it. Or drop list 2.
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Post by Deller on Mar 15, 2017 8:11:20 GMT
How does this list deal with High Arm. It seems like you're totally reliant on Denny to feat or debuff and Nightmare?? to do the damage? It depends on the type of Armor you're dealing with. Are you dealing with a Single Arcane Shielded Stormwall? Feat + Parasite and it's now armor 17. Are you Dealing with multiple Armor 20 Khador jacks? Feat and throw out Parasite & Crippling Grasp and you've got one at Armor 15 another at armor 16. Nightmare smashes that easily, and Revenants have Pow 11 charges and pow 12 point blank shots (point blank with the gun counts as a melee attack and gets the gang bonus). The game gets grindy, but Revenants can get there. Yes you are totally reliant on Debuffs to get there, but that's the nature of Cryx, and the beauty of Deneghra1 is you don't have just one armor Debuff, you have two. You also have potentially have the option to just assassinate the caster depending on what you're up against or use your numbers and feat to make a scenario play as -2 speed, no running, no charging makes it very difficult to get into a relevant scenario position. Up against Harkevich & 10 Marauders? Just kill Harkevich, since even with Iron Sentinel, 12/14 (Feat + Crippling Grasp) with 18 boxes isn't exactly that hard to kill. The 3 Rifle CRAs (assuming you don't want to risk 7s to hit at dice -4) kill him on average by themselves, and you can add a boosted Venom and potential Pistol Wraith, Regular Revenant shots, & Rengrave just to be sure. Don't think you can kill Bart's Galleon? Bart will only be 9/15 or 11/14, depending on which Debuff you prefer, & 17 boxes, kill him instead. 9 ghost shots with the potential to CRA are extremely dangerous, and many of the most played armor spam lists are lead by deceptively squishy casters.
|
|
|
Post by far2casual on Mar 15, 2017 10:33:01 GMT
Ghost Fleet + Denny1 has no trouble cracking armour, unless we're talking about ridiculous ARM lvls (like ARM22+) or a huge spam of ARM20-21 (like 7 Khador heavies).
During feat turn you remove 2 heavies trivially (I mean, I killed a full Zuriel with 3 Revenants, feat and crippling grasp), during the rest of the turns you kill one without any problem while they're swarmed in your Revenants. Don't forget the Recursion give you access each turn to about 9 new Revenant charges. That's 9 POW12 attacks who adds up to 31 damage a turn on ARM19 for example !
If you face one of those ridiculously high ARM armies, like Harkevich and 7 heavies, they will sacrifice a lot of things to achieve that, like volume of attacks or scenario presence. This will open up scenario play and assassination runs, which are already very strong with Ghost Fleet.
|
|