blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jul 28, 2017 23:57:37 GMT
^ how does Harbinger heal? cut herself? one of my two biggest beefs with the Exemplar theme is that Rhoven and Co do not count toward theme bonus. Come one, 2/3 of the unit are exemplars. The other is Gravus not being a free solo (I believe there is a Retribution one that lets them pick their 8 pt Dragoon as a free solo) Gravus should most definitely be a free solo... then the theme actually does something for the exemplars and I agree Rhoven and Co should count towards points. Not sure why this theme is so screwy that way... it isn't good enough that either of these changes would make it overpowered... I thought harbinger could heal through the hierophant and battle engine..? she has issues with cutting She can, but in the Exemplar theme list you posted there is no Battle Engine, and Heirophant cannot be taken in theme You can try squeezing the Vessel in, but after including Rhoven and Gravus, you have to remove one of the KE units, plus both Seneschals and drop the choir
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Post by djgibraltar on Jul 30, 2017 2:56:33 GMT
There are many good casters. Here is my current addiction
Reznick 2
-His feat is just so damn good vs infantry. at pow 14 it kills a lot of stuff. cavalry, solos`, shield guard models. it allows you to go jack heavy and armor cracking while still devastating troop spam lists with the right list. -Curse..........you don`t have to roll anything. you just say +2. so damn good. -He is a weaponmaster. his presence in melee is insane. even if just to clean up some jam. he is reliable -Scourge of Heresy. When paired with his caster. This jack`s potential is insane. -Lol at Troll Highwaymen and other similar units when you have a focus on you. if they have no magic guns he can be a real bully on the table. -between him and durst i have been playing a ton of boundless charge lately. its not the move or pathfinder that makes this spell awesome. its the free charge. -lamentation -can`t be kd. with 13/18 and a ton of boxes. even if they can shoot him. hes not an easy kill. -reposition and a huge base. both of which give him a lot of scenario presence being easily able to be getting points in 2 places after you have done your turn.
***im thinking of pairing him with severius 2. they have similar thoughts. i present double heavy lists that are hard to crack. they both have ways of dealing with troops that are very effective while still running jack spam and having the armor cracking as well.
Here are 2 lists i have tested lately. both are illegal in a sense. but will most likely soon change. both in creator`s might
Rez2 idrians (this most likely will come to pass even if they do tailor what you have access too. partisan units will probably be in every iteration of the merc in theme cid) Scourge of Heresy Templar Reckoner x 2 Castigator covenant vassal x 2 wrack x 2 meckanik max choir
2nd list has
rez 2 revelator reckoner x 2 scourge of heresy tristan with templar vassal x 2 covenant min choir
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jul 30, 2017 11:09:57 GMT
I don't really know how the lack of international stars winning with PoM should stop anyone from winning wth PoM in their own, local environment.
I am extremely happy with Sevvy1 and hardly ever lose with him (last time I remember was a tournament game against Polish Championship winner, and even this one was very close). His Creator's Might gunline is just brutal. Everything he does, from his crippling feat to his excellent passive abilities, is so useful against paractically any opponent.
Harby is also very potent and doesn't require Theme to be so in my opinion. A mixed list with Eye of Truth and a selection of mercs works well for me, although she can't be dropped into basically anything, like Sevvy.
Amon and Sevvy2 are actually too popular and strong for me to consider, I prefer more uniqueness and challenge to be honest. Especially Sevvy2's abilities are so point'n'click that I wouldn't think of using him.
High Reclaimer and Testament are still very nice, IMO, but I think they suffer from the meta's preparation for Ghost Fleet and increased number of RfP abilities.
Exemplar Theme is a godsend for Vindictus- Exemplars and Vinny complement each other in a wonderful way, removing all weaknesses of both for at least part of the game.
I think a pairing like Sevvy1 Creator's Might gunline (just wait for double Revelators with him!) and Vindictus's Interdiction or Harby out of theme should be able to compete with anything you can think of, bar maybe the obscene double TEP+bazillion free Sield Guards Convergence (I honestly don't know what could fight it and win).
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jul 30, 2017 12:54:01 GMT
I don't really know how the lack of international stars winning with PoM should stop anyone from winning wth PoM in their own, local environment.I am extremely happy with Sevvy1 and hardly ever lose with him (last time I remember was a tournament game against Polish Championship winner, and even this one was very close). His Creator's Might gunline is just brutal. Everything he does, from his crippling feat to his excellent passive abilities, is so useful against paractically any opponent. Harby is also very potent and doesn't require Theme to be so in my opinion. A mixed list with Eye of Truth and a selection of mercs works well for me, although she can't be dropped into basically anything, like Sevvy. Amon and Sevvy2 are actually too popular and strong for me to consider, I prefer more uniqueness and challenge to be honest. Especially Sevvy2's abilities are so point'n'click that I wouldn't think of using him. High Reclaimer and Testament are still very nice, IMO, but I think they suffer from the meta's preparation for Ghost Fleet and increased number of RfP abilities. Exemplar Theme is a godsend for Vindictus- Exemplars and Vinny complement each other in a wonderful way, removing all weaknesses of both for at least part of the game. I think a pairing like Sevvy1 Creator's Might gunline (just wait for double Revelators with him!) and Vindictus's Interdiction or Harby out of theme should be able to compete with anything you can think of, bar maybe the obscene double TEP+bazillion free Sield Guards Convergence (I honestly don't know what could fight it and win). It doesn't, but it DOES prevent a primary pairing from emerging. My pairing at my last tournament win was Harbinger and Kreoss 1. Harbinger had an Indictor and deliverers, and I player her twice of three matches. I wouldn not expect others to play this list, or do particularly well with it.
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Post by Chevelle on Jul 31, 2017 7:10:57 GMT
CyelWould you mind sharing your Sevy1 gunline list ?
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Post by Arch4ngel on Jul 31, 2017 7:17:18 GMT
The list I'm currently favoring with HR is a throwback to the WTC list that used Devil Dogs+AP. That's pretty solidly not in any theme.
In terms of OP's question, right now I'm fiddling with a number of lists under a variety of casters, but if you want my "best" right atm:
1) A grindy Testament list that basically just chokes scenario, annihilates my opponent's clock, and looks for opportunities to assassinate with a ridiculous focus stack.
2) A mixed-force Malekus list that brings a lot of options to the table, but is primarily designed to crack armor. The number of pow16 attacks the list can throw around is startling.
Other notes: -I'm going to +1 Paradox's Feora1 suggestion. She's not new or flashy, but I like where he's going with her. He's got me convinced he's onto something.
-I'm presently trying to unlock Feora3. She IS new and flashy, but crazy vulnerable. That said, stacking her bonuses makes all of your models punch SO FAR above their weight class it's goofy. I haven't found a really good list for her yet, but it's my current project.
-Harbinger is basically the only caster we have that stands a chance into Kallus2, IMO. If I see him become a regular piece of my meta, she'll be in my tournament pair.
-Vindictus is awesome for Knights Exemplar, but I'm not sure that the theme benefits are worth losing Call to Sacrifice.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jul 31, 2017 9:46:35 GMT
Cyel Would you mind sharing your Sevy1 gunline list ? I posted it a while ago in the Avatar thread with some reports. It's (Severius 1) Grand Scrutator Severius [+28] - Blessing of Vengeance [13] - Reckoner [16] - Reckoner [16] Avatar of Menoth [20] Vessel of Judgment [18] Initiate Tristan Durant [0(4)] - Redeemer [11] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (max) [6] My "serious" pairing for it is (Harbinger 1) The Harbinger of Menoth [+24] - Eye of Truth [20] - Vigilant / Devout [9] - Hierophant [3] Flame Bringers (max) [17] Knights Exemplar [9] - Knights Exemplar Officer [5] Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9] Nicia, Tear of Vengeance [5] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] The Covenant of Menoth [4] Kell Bailoch [5] Knight Exemplar Seneschal [5] Anastasia di Bray [3] Wrack [1] Wrack [1] but I usually take a weaker, more challenging second list to local events so I can use it against a less experienced / less invested player and still have an interesting game for both of us.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 31, 2017 20:22:06 GMT
ha, I'm too used to people doing "trial by fire" in order to make inexperienced players better. Basically, they crush them, hard, then chat about everything that could have been done to keep it from happening for about a half an hour to an hour x.O; The conversation about different mechanics and different ways to play makes them play better next time. They then crush the player again and do the same thing... after about a month of doing this the player can hold his own and doesn't mind the losing aspect because of the aftermath learning that happens. It's the reason why even the newer players in our meta can play the board well and make the most of what pieces they have, regardless of their opponent. It'll be interesting when I go back down south (end of october) to see who the new power gamers have become.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jul 31, 2017 21:21:19 GMT
Nah, my gaming time is too valuable for one-sided games
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 31, 2017 22:31:07 GMT
mmm we do play from 5pm-11pm on wednesdays, sometimes even until 12 or 1 (the owner doesn't close shop until everyone is done. They are used to leaving at 2am due to DnD gamers), plus games on the weekends when people schedule them.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jul 31, 2017 23:01:06 GMT
My gaming nights start at 5 and I have work at 6 in the morning.
I get one game per week and I'd liek to make it an evenly matched one.
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jul 31, 2017 23:51:29 GMT
...I think a pairing like Sevvy1 Creator's Might gunline (just wait for double Revelators with him!) and Vindictus's Interdiction or Harby out of theme should be able to compete with anything you can think of, bar maybe the obscene double TEP+bazillion free Sield Guards Convergence (I honestly don't know what could fight it and win). Double Storm Strider Nemo 3 list would decimate infantry heavy exemplar theme. With Arlan Strangeways in the list to hand out magic weapon to Dynamo, it can also easily take out any jack from your list as well even with the choir protection Jack heavy lists theortically would be the best counter, but even then, it is hard to protect your choir and support
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Aug 1, 2017 7:51:03 GMT
Well, obviously nobody in their right mind would drop Harby into Nemo3, so it's a moot point. It's more of a Hordes drop anyway.
Sevvy1's list also easily deletes heavies (or Battle Engines) from the distance and also somehow threatens enemy support with Menoth-leaps. I haven't played this match-up yet so can't really offer my experience, but I know I wouldn't approach this game with a feeling that it's a losing game from the beginning.
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Aug 1, 2017 12:51:07 GMT
ha, I'm too used to people doing "trial by fire" in order to make inexperienced players better. Basically, they crush them, hard, then chat about everything that could have been done to keep it from happening for about a half an hour to an hour x.O; The conversation about different mechanics and different ways to play makes them play better next time. They then crush the player again and do the same thing... after about a month of doing this the player can hold his own and doesn't mind the losing aspect because of the aftermath learning that happens. It's the reason why even the newer players in our meta can play the board well and make the most of what pieces they have, regardless of their opponent. It'll be interesting when I go back down south (end of october) to see who the new power gamers have become. This is how I learned the game. I was told right at the beginning that I will lose a lot. Play to learn. Don't feel bad if you lose, and lose I did. Then, after a few months, I started winning. Baptism by fire.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 1, 2017 14:28:27 GMT
ha, I'm too used to people doing "trial by fire" in order to make inexperienced players better. Basically, they crush them, hard, then chat about everything that could have been done to keep it from happening for about a half an hour to an hour x.O; The conversation about different mechanics and different ways to play makes them play better next time. They then crush the player again and do the same thing... after about a month of doing this the player can hold his own and doesn't mind the losing aspect because of the aftermath learning that happens. It's the reason why even the newer players in our meta can play the board well and make the most of what pieces they have, regardless of their opponent. It'll be interesting when I go back down south (end of october) to see who the new power gamers have become. This is how I learned the game. I was told right at the beginning that I will lose a lot. Play to learn. Don't feel bad if you lose, and lose I did. Then, after a few months, I started winning. Baptism by fire. I handled my hardcore losing streak in 40K, and a lot the skills are transferable. but yes, I tell newbies they have to be ready to lose their way to victory.
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