demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 28, 2017 5:27:07 GMT
the lists haven't been found yet for Reznik1. Too much focus desire kills his ability to fully utilize his battlegroup without suffering from support bloat. The person who started this wanted it to be formatted for "new" players. Reznik1 is a little too much of a learning curve for newbies.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jul 28, 2017 12:15:44 GMT
I mostly just lurk here but I can't for the life of me see why Reznik1 isn't seeing any love. He's got lots of surprise assassination power. He's got raw jack power. He is himself a brawler in SR2017. Pretty sure there's an entire thread about him in the first Menoth forum page. I politely refer you to my comments there.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 28, 2017 13:56:30 GMT
At the moment, my personal pairing is Thyra (Vanilla, due to wanting both Daughters & KE) and Tristan2 (Creator's Might), with testing a Kreoss3 (Exemplar Interdiction, double Vengers. Sadly I don't have a second unit of Vengers, so it's proxy-only). Granted, I like to being an odd duck. I just bought into double vengers/Kreoss3/Gravus >> just the mere fluff of basically an armored cavalry list of Knights makes me want this to work more than anything... I mean Vengers are just cooler than flamebringers but unfortunately flamerbringers got all the game. It is a surprisingly good list. I run the following: Kreoss3 (Exemplar Interdiction) Fire of Salvation Sanctifier min Choir max Exemplar Errants + UA + Senny max Vengers x2 Gravus Knight Exemplar Seneschal Vassal of Menoth Vassal Mechanik Generally the Errants either jam, or get jammed, bogging down one side of the board, with a unit of Vengers and/or the Sanctifier as back-up. Meanwhile, Kreoss3, the second unit of Vengers, Gravus and Fire clear the other side of the board, with survivors eventually wheeling around to allow the whole army to gang up on the survivors of the Errant fight. So far, the biggest issues I've run into are a) Errants are a tad squishier than I'd like and b) outside of Errants, low volume of attacks. This can, and has, lead to end-game states (specifically vs a Vald1 Rockets + 3 Juggy list) with very little left alive (Vlad1 game, all that was left was 2 Vengers, Kreoss, a Vassal, and 1-2 choir members vs Vlad1 and Eiryss1). That being said, Vengers are abso-freaking-lutely amazing with Kreoss3. Delivering them safely is a little rough, but they can wreck basically anything (with ignite and battle driven, 3 charging Vengers will leave a Juggernaut on 1 box on average).
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Jul 28, 2017 14:15:04 GMT
I just bought into double vengers/Kreoss3/Gravus >> just the mere fluff of basically an armored cavalry list of Knights makes me want this to work more than anything... I mean Vengers are just cooler than flamebringers but unfortunately flamerbringers got all the game. It is a surprisingly good list. I run the following: Kreoss3 (Exemplar Interdiction) Fire of Salvation Sanctifier min Choir max Exemplar Errants + UA + Senny max Vengers x2 Gravus Knight Exemplar Seneschal Vassal of Menoth Vassal Mechanik Generally the Errants either jam, or get jammed, bogging down one side of the board, with a unit of Vengers and/or the Sanctifier as back-up. Meanwhile, Kreoss3, the second unit of Vengers, Gravus and Fire clear the other side of the board, with survivors eventually wheeling around to allow the whole army to gang up on the survivors of the Errant fight. So far, the biggest issues I've run into are a) Errants are a tad squishier than I'd like and b) outside of Errants, low volume of attacks. This can, and has, lead to end-game states (specifically vs a Vald1 Rockets + 3 Juggy list) with very little left alive (Vlad1 game, all that was left was 2 Vengers, Kreoss, a Vassal, and 1-2 choir members vs Vlad1 and Eiryss1). That being said, Vengers are abso-freaking-lutely amazing with Kreoss3. Delivering them safely is a little rough, but they can wreck basically anything (with ignite and battle driven, 3 charging Vengers will leave a Juggernaut on 1 box on average). (Total Sarcasm) Don't you just Park the Vengers in a forest with one peaking out? Then your opponent gives you Battle Driven. I know I read about this somewhere...
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 28, 2017 14:33:12 GMT
only when playing against the very-most elite players. It's unsporting to use such a top-tier strat vs newbs.
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Post by macdaddy on Jul 28, 2017 16:44:58 GMT
only when playing against the very-most elite players. It's unsporting to use such a top-tier strat vs newbs. If only us common folk had the mental capacity to understand and implement such grand strategies. Alas I'll have to trigger Battle driven in my lowly plebeian way
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jul 28, 2017 19:37:13 GMT
I'm not a "world class" player, but for what it's worth these are caster's I have brought to tournament in MK II so far
Feora 1 she actually has been my go to list in most matchups and I probably have the best record with her. It is pretty much Cleansers, Hand of Judgment, Eye of Truth, Battle Engine and support She has been at least one of my pairings in every tournament My loses all have either been because I clocked myself (damn cleanser sprays take so long to resolve sometimes since so many models get caught under it) or lose on scenario (SR 2016) despite being ahead in attrition because I am too focused on killing stuff
Kreoss 3 with Vengers - As of late he has been my go to 2nd pairing and takes over for Feora when there are jack/beast heavy lists or lots of fire immunity. decent success, but again my losses here have typically been on scenario. Opponents often underestimate the amount of damage Divine inspiration, Ignited Vengers under Battle Driven can do
I've also played Harbinger as a second list. A super solo list with her including the Vessel can surprisingly face tank some matchups. I am the weakest with her and it does have some bad matchups, but she is still a good contender and her feat can still be a ball buster
Severius 1 I used as a second pairing before switching to Kreoss 3
High Reclaimer pre-nerf was mys 1 choice in a 2 list pairing with Feora and was very strong. I ran him with Vengers, KE with UA and Rhoven plsu some othe rstuff. I pretty easily beat many lists/players assassination that I normally would not have beaten (feating back a few KE, using their mini feat and sometimes GUiS and/or Cassaion) . So I would say the nerf was really needed. Not sure if it went to far though since I have not had a chance to play post nerf
Vindictus was one of my go to lists in MK II and theoretically he got even better, but I just have not gotten comfortable enough playing them in MK III yet
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 28, 2017 20:07:40 GMT
MK3 has seen a lot of changes but some of them should speed up your turns to make feora1 valid. Never used Kreoss, Harby with everything to cmd is still flawed, sevy fixes the units with slight mat and rat issues, haven't played as high reclaimer. Vindictus seems to be a popular theory machine yet I have not seen any battle reports for him yet. Unfortunately, unlike the Skorne area, we do not have a collective win/loss record with battle reports to help players see what is winning, what is losing, what is the easiest to play for newer players, and why.
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Post by WantonRanger on Jul 28, 2017 20:37:29 GMT
MK3 has seen a lot of changes but some of them should speed up your turns to make feora1 valid. Never used Kreoss, Harby with everything to cmd is still flawed, sevy fixes the units with slight mat and rat issues, haven't played as high reclaimer. Vindictus seems to be a popular theory machine yet I have not seen any battle reports for him yet. Unfortunately, unlike the Skorne area, we do not have a collective win/loss record with battle reports to help players see what is winning, what is losing, what is the easiest to play for newer players, and why. This would be useful...
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Post by charlzheimer on Jul 28, 2017 20:39:05 GMT
wait. what kind of harby lists are people rocking in interdiction then?
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Post by WantonRanger on Jul 28, 2017 20:40:19 GMT
I'm kind of hoping that we can eventually manage a caster with a strong healing theme... the list I have in mind probably can't exist in theme but...
Combinations of multiwound models with Harbinger/VoJ - ?Vengers/Bastions/Paladins (with new horsey)... I feel like this healing element could really be a thing for Protectorate...
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Post by WantonRanger on Jul 28, 2017 20:43:05 GMT
wait. what kind of harby lists are people rocking in interdiction then? a recent tournament list from DiscountGames.inc The Harbinger of Menoth Devout Templar Knights Exemplar Knight Exemplar Officer Knights Exemplar Knight Exemplar Officer Knights Exemplar Exemplar Vengers (max) Visgoth Rhoven & Honor Guard Choir of Menoth (min) High Exemplar Gravus Exemplar Seneschal Exemplar Seneschal The Wrack ... but thats a lot of knights... so awesome!
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jul 28, 2017 22:56:39 GMT
^ how does Harbinger heal? cut herself?
one of my two biggest beefs with the Exemplar theme is that Rhoven and Co do not count toward theme bonus.
Come one, 2/3 of the unit are exemplars.
The other is Gravus not being a free solo (I believe there is a Retribution one that lets them pick their 8 pt Dragoon as a free solo)
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Post by WantonRanger on Jul 28, 2017 23:07:40 GMT
^ how does Harbinger heal? cut herself? one of my two biggest beefs with the Exemplar theme is that Rhoven and Co do not count toward theme bonus. Come one, 2/3 of the unit are exemplars. The other is Gravus not being a free solo (I believe there is a Retribution one that lets them pick their 8 pt Dragoon as a free solo) Gravus should most definitely be a free solo... then the theme actually does something for the exemplars and I agree Rhoven and Co should count towards points. Not sure why this theme is so screwy that way... it isn't good enough that either of these changes would make it overpowered... I thought harbinger could heal through the hierophant and battle engine..? she has issues with cutting
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 28, 2017 23:15:54 GMT
^ how does Harbinger heal? cut herself? one of my two biggest beefs with the Exemplar theme is that Rhoven and Co do not count toward theme bonus. Come one, 2/3 of the unit are exemplars. The other is Gravus not being a free solo (I believe there is a Retribution one that lets them pick their 8 pt Dragoon as a free solo) Gravus should most definitely be a free solo... then the theme actually does something for the exemplars and I agree Rhoven and Co should count towards points. Not sure why this theme is so screwy that way... it isn't good enough that either of these changes would make it overpowered... I thought harbinger could heal through the hierophant and battle engine..? she has issues with cutting Yep. Harbinger can be healed by the Heirophant for d3+1, through a Vessel of Judgement for d3, and by spending focus at 1 hp/focus. So max she could theoretically heal in a turn is 21 HP (4 from Heirophant, 6 from a pair of engines, 10 focus, 1 Wrack). edit: granted, she only has 17 HP, and so can really only heal 16 a turn. And that would be a really risky move to let her drop to 1 HP.
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