Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Jul 25, 2017 18:03:22 GMT
While we're making wishes, give him a pony!
Honestly, my preferred change to Gaze would be changing begins to enters.
I mean, the thread title IS "what if?" But because of the mood I'm in, now my mental image is the avatar beating up Feora and Kreoss and strapping their horses to his feet.
I'm still waiting for it to sound like a bad thing.
|
|
moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
|
Post by moquan on Jul 25, 2017 19:16:52 GMT
I mean, the thread title IS "what if?" But because of the mood I'm in, now my mental image is the avatar beating up Feora and Kreoss and strapping their horses to his feet.
I'm still waiting for it to sound like a bad thing.
Could this be the next colossal? Will be released before our second one ofcourse.
|
|
spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
|
Post by spideredd on Jul 25, 2017 21:56:06 GMT
Immunity Disruption. Maybe a point or two drop to compensate for the fact that he is non-battle group and that's less of a bonus than it was in MKII.
|
|
blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
|
Post by blakeh1 on Jul 25, 2017 22:40:23 GMT
What if Avatar were disruption immune, and Gaze required directly toward? 21-22pts? While we're making wishes, give him a pony!
Honestly, my preferred change to Gaze would be changing begins to enters.
I would take that along with the disruption immunity (even if it meant a 1-2 pt increase) As it is now, Gaze is hard to really use effectively and in most cases, the only thing it is going to effect are most likely things that are going to either charge the avatar anyway, or move a little or even stand still and shoot I don't think I have ever had the Avatar survive past the turn with Gaze (unless I am already winning out on attrition and ten it doesn't matter much to the outcome anyway) Starting being able to catch things moving with 8" though opens that ability up a lot maybe too much? drop back to 6"?
|
|
blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
|
Post by blakeh1 on Jul 25, 2017 22:43:51 GMT
or maybe leave at 20 pts, immunity to disruption, and can run or charge for free
that way you can charge, but if you roll average or below you still get at least 2 FOC afterwards
|
|
|
Post by paradox on Jul 25, 2017 23:32:40 GMT
Other possible abilities to add, if the focus is to make it worth cost, or up price with abilities to match: -Divine Inspiration. Makes Avatar silly efficient, even on low-focus turns. 23pts. -Veteran Leader [friendly Faction model]. Make it 8", like Gaze. More mild, but gives it some thematic interactions to make up for loss of BH. 20pts. -Awe. Make it 5"-8". Won't stack with Harbie, but again plays into buffs in lieu of BG. 21pts. -Divinity. Again riffing on Harbie, but still thematic. 20pts. -Flame Burst > Admonisher. This really opens its utility. 21pts. -Immunity Fire/Aegis. Fits in faction theme. 19-20pts. -True Sight. It is powered by Menoth, afterall. 20pts. -Brace for Impact/Sturdy. Makes it an immovable object. 20pts.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Jul 26, 2017 0:02:10 GMT
Make the avatar a caster let him run warjack a and Be a general menoth pain in the butt.
|
|
|
Post by paradox on Jul 26, 2017 0:41:30 GMT
Another possibility is generate focus at start of activation. It's situationally immune to disruption then, if you have a vassal handy.
|
|
|
Post by W0lfBane on Jul 26, 2017 14:55:59 GMT
Another possibility is generate focus at start of activation. It's situationally immune to disruption then, if you have a vassal handy. That would sadly make it so that you can't top him up on focus. If you roll low you roll low and you can't plan your activation ahead of time
|
|
|
Post by paradox on Jul 26, 2017 15:00:24 GMT
Another possibility is generate focus at start of activation. It's situationally immune to disruption then, if you have a vassal handy. That would sadly make it so that you can't top him up on focus. If you roll low you roll low and you can't plan your activation ahead of time True. It's just a suggestion though.
|
|
|
Post by gargs454 on Jul 26, 2017 15:07:02 GMT
The problem is they put too much stock in certain abilities being used which drives the point cost up, when in fact those abilities are often rarely relevant in most games Yeah, I often wonder if in testing the Avatar, PP players ended up always treating Gaze as "directly toward" rather than how it is actually written. That could definitely explain how they felt that Gaze was so much more powerful than it actually is. Then when it gets pointed out to them how its not so powerful after all, it puts them in the tough spot of either ignoring the complaints or admitting that they had misinterpreted it during play testing. Granted, I'll give them credit for occasionally admitting that they messed up (like with Skorne) but I think they are still slow a lot of the time to admit mistakes . . . or at least admit that things are not actually working out as they had initially envisioned.
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Jul 26, 2017 15:19:12 GMT
The problem is they put too much stock in certain abilities being used which drives the point cost up, when in fact those abilities are often rarely relevant in most games Yeah, I often wonder if in testing the Avatar, PP players ended up always treating Gaze as "directly toward" rather than how it is actually written. That could definitely explain how they felt that Gaze was so much more powerful than it actually is. Then when it gets pointed out to them how its not so powerful after all, it puts them in the tough spot of either ignoring the complaints or admitting that they had misinterpreted it during play testing. Granted, I'll give them credit for occasionally admitting that they messed up (like with Skorne) but I think they are still slow a lot of the time to admit mistakes . . . or at least admit that things are not actually working out as they had initially envisioned. More likely he worked incredibly well under a set of rules or circumstances that changed after they were done with him, specifically.
Either that or they used him in odd ways like Gazing after kreoss1 feat instead of buying 2 redeemers for the cost and just killing the caster.
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Jul 26, 2017 15:50:51 GMT
Nah. The problem is that they almost certainly didn't test him at all in the transition to mk3. Literally the only thing that changed was his point cost, losing Terror, and his shield going to 1" melee. And the last two changes were likely copy-paste changes using a "Find and Replace" command. Losing disruption immunity was collateral damage for the change to Disruption no longer needing a cortex. PP then back pedaled and said "yeah, we totes meant for that to affect the avatar!"
Gaze is fine as is. Its the rest of his kit that needs help.
Drop point cost to 18. Gain immunity Disruption.
|
|
spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
|
Post by spideredd on Jul 26, 2017 15:53:07 GMT
Gaze is fine as is. Its the rest of his kit that needs help. Drop point cost to 18. Gain immunity Disruption. Wait, You and I agree on a change to a model? This is probably the solution if that's the case.
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Jul 26, 2017 15:56:25 GMT
That is one of the potential solutions for the Avatar. Simple and elegant.
Other changes would involve giving him additional abilities and keeping his cost the same. Something like upping his focus generation by 1(D3+2) and immune to disruption. Or giving him a passive buff aura like Veteran Leader[friendly faction].
|
|