unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Aug 23, 2017 14:26:07 GMT
Honestly? No reason other than wanting a change. I don't think this reply is getting nearly enough credit. This is how the game should be played imo. Try something new, have fun with it, and then with fresh eyes update what you know. This approach is the only reason I ever picked up the twins in the first place, and that's given me the most rewarding caster I've ever played across 3 faction (spanning 39 casters). -und_ed
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aedeeg
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by aedeeg on Aug 23, 2017 14:36:22 GMT
I like them dropped into almost anything (my generalist list), and I bring something that can play into hard gunlines (like Sloan) as a pairing. Lylyth3 works well (although I find her just as boring as old MKII Lylyth2, so I tend to avoid her) and obviously Fyanna2 Oracles is a great second list. -und_ed Is that running out of theme with Blightbringer or in theme with Zuriel etc. ? I am considering taking them to a steamroller this weekend to replace my abby 2 list but I'm not sure how it will deal with jack spam. I'll probably be running Lylyth3 with 3 angels for my second list, possibly Fyanna 2. Fyanna might be my Amon drop, I'm still debating how the Twins will do in that matchup. I really like how the twins play and they seem to have such a high skill cap that they won't get boring as quickly as other casters. I want to make them work but I'm also reluctant to play them in a tournament right away without much practice. Decisions decisions...
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Post by Falcen on Aug 23, 2017 18:41:44 GMT
If the list is paired with something like Lylyth3, the eTwins basically must have the Blightbringer, because he increases Rhyas' attrition capability significantly.
If you're bold enough to jump into a tournament without experience with the twins is up to you.... I'm doing it this weekend, but I've already played them for a while last year.
First test game yesterday (I hope I get at least 2-3 games before the tournament) was against Grymkin and I *really* wished we had Golab already available...
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aedeeg
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by aedeeg on Aug 23, 2017 20:53:24 GMT
I have experience with the twins, mostly from mark 2 and early mark 3. I'm just unsure of them with the advent of SR2017 and Theme lists. I think I will give them a go. I have been running a Lylyth 3 list with double archangel that I find, at least in my meta, works really well. It might be interesting to bring a BB Twins list and Double AA lylyth 3 list for the list chicken phase and forcing them to play a matchup that can deal with Gargantuans but it will probably suffer to Khador dude spam and Menoth Jack spam. Thanks for your input!
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Aug 23, 2017 22:16:13 GMT
For me it's always with a blightbringer.
I've played both with and without, and frankly they just lack so much without old BB for me.
My favoured pairing is twins / Fyanna2. If I'm facing down armour / box spam, I reach for twins first. I can only do this if I'm playing blighty.
I know it's tempting to go for Zuriel with the double affinity, but I just can't justify Zuriel at his points cost and awful pillow fists. I'm gonna try out a Saeryn 1 list at some point with Zuriel and the thrown deathspurs for some cute system scalpeling, but it's more of a fun gimmick than a genuine winning strategy imo.
I do recommend playing the list a bit before diving into a steamroller. Their playstyle hinges so much on knowing exactly how much risk you can reasonably take, and you only get a good feel for that with practice (not to mention whoen to switch gears).
Hope that's helpful.
-und_ed
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Aug 24, 2017 7:32:40 GMT
For me it's always with a blightbringer. I've played both with and without, and frankly they just lack so much without old BB for me. My favoured pairing is twins / Fyanna2. If I'm facing down armour / box spam, I reach for twins first. I can only do this if I'm playing blighty. I know it's tempting to go for Zuriel with the double affinity, but I just can't justify Zuriel at his points cost and awful pillow fists. I'm gonna try out a Saeryn 1 list at some point with Zuriel and the thrown deathspurs for some cute system scalpeling, but it's more of a fun gimmick than a genuine winning strategy imo. -und_ed I have played some games with blighty and in Ravens. Your approach is ton of fun and its working but I needed something else for my pairing. But I think Zuriel deserves more credits Probably you have more games with him anyway but he works fine for me. I had simmilar opinion on him looking on cards but he brings nice utility. Stealth, arc node, MAT 8 aand precision strike. I value this ability more and more I use it. Playing mostly Thags1 I swtiched from "I must kill his army" to "damage him and survive, repeat" approach. And Zuriel is good at it. Cut cortex, probalby main arm too, put dodge and stay in mele in case of shooting. Not so good against Hordes but I probably won't play them in Skorne or Trolls brick. And with full raptors, 2x deathstalker + Zuriel assault there is high chance to snipe healing support and drain Warlock fury.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Aug 24, 2017 7:56:16 GMT
So exactly what you're suggesting is what I want to do with Saeryn, except with the deathspurs it works against Hordes as well (bring a bolty for snipe on Saeryn).
It's just really hard to justify a 17-point beast playing footsie with an enemy heavy for 2 turns when the same points of Scythean or a Carni will just kill it outright. Considering a jugger is 12 freaking points, it's not playing to your advantage using 50% more points and still taking 2 turns to get the job done.
I'm intrigued by the ravens idea. I'd probably try to fit in a second unit of raptors if you wanna go that route (although I only own one unit currently). It's just so much harder to make a pairing since your other list now needs to cater to both box jack spam and gunlines.
-und_ed
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Aug 24, 2017 12:52:18 GMT
It's just really hard to justify a 17-point beast playing footsie with an enemy heavy for 2 turns when the same points of Scythean or a Carni will just kill it outright. Considering a jugger is 12 freaking points, it's not playing to your advantage using 50% more points and still taking 2 turns to get the job done. I'm intrigued by the ravens idea. I'd probably try to fit in a second unit of raptors if you wanna go that route (although I only own one unit currently). It's just so much harder to make a pairing since your other list now needs to cater to both box jack spam and gunlines. -und_ed I see you point. But without damage buff one rounding Jugger with Scythean or Carni is far from certain. And if they fail they can be in far worse scenario than Zuriel. 1 box in cortex and 2nd in axe happens surprisingly often. Better to kill but damage buff often can't be everywhere. I've got Karchev this way with pThags in CoTD. Some KD from Azrael, Typhon killing one per turn, Zuriel damaging plus limiting reprisal. Better mobility, precision strike, shadow bind, damaged system, terrain in the way and he lost a lot of resources to hit back. Close game and almost clocked but it worked out. Maybe not optimal solution but I like it. Stealth raptors + double ambush are not so bad into SOME of the gunlines I didn't test 2 units, not planning to buy 2nd. But the list is fun. It plays scenario like a boss, murders infantry and you still have Rhyas personal threat.
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Post by yourmumrang on Aug 25, 2017 8:23:34 GMT
Wait, you're not taking Zuriel? What does your BB list look like? I tried an Oracles version last night and it was ok.
Still yet to test WeSJ and the above solo heavy version.
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Aug 25, 2017 8:50:43 GMT
From unded first post in topic:
Twins Blighty Seraph Neph Prot Min swordies Max Raptors Hellmouth 2 shepherds 2 spell martyrs
As for Ravens version: I have crazy idea to swap Protector for Anyssa +2x spell martyr. He is mostly derping around anyway. I will see how much I miss him becaouse I desperately need more solos and I don't want to drop units or Angelius.
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Post by yourmumrang on Aug 25, 2017 9:46:55 GMT
I also came up against this list at ETC which was interesting... Twins Blighty Zuriel Seraph Protector Max Hex Hunters with Bayal Hellion x2 Shepherd x3 Spell Martyr This is the list of was on about. It's interesting.
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Post by Falcen on Aug 26, 2017 0:41:35 GMT
This is the list of was on about. It's interesting. imho it's more like the only version possible in OoA... the theme limits the variations a lot.
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Post by piedpiperwtf on Aug 26, 2017 14:06:05 GMT
With the ice witches coming out, think we might be able to change it up with the twins in Oracles?
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Aug 27, 2017 22:24:40 GMT
Ice witches look cool, but I don't think they bring much that the twins need.
Ice cage is meaningless when you already have a 6-point DEF swing in the army, so that's a bust. The sprays (anti-infantry) are again not really needed when you have Raptors, Rhyas, BB 5" AoE and razor wind / blood rain all available. So that just leaves puppet master, which could be clutch in certain situations but I don't think is really enough to justify their inclusion when Twins lists are already so tight on points.
-und_ed
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Post by chillychinaman on Aug 29, 2017 0:05:13 GMT
@under Where's the -6def swing coming from? I count 2 from Saeryn and 2 from BB.
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