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Post by Dega1000 on Jul 27, 2017 8:37:05 GMT
Speaking about harby's feat, i think it is possible to find various solutions: 1) keep the feat as it is, but increase the range to 14". 2) change it completely in one of the following ways. 2a) Menoth protection: "while in harby's cmd range friendly faction models gains tough 4+ and no kd". 2b) Menoth radiance: "while in harby's ctrl enemy models suffer -3 mat and rat and cannot charge". 2c Menoth salvation: "while in harby's cmd/ctrl friendly faction models gain +3 def and cannot be targeted by combined attacks". I think those solutions respect harby's bg and can help her infantry lists. There can be other solutions of course.
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Post by paradox on Jul 27, 2017 10:34:24 GMT
And how is that not a nerfed Feora1 feat? x.x; Sometimes, I read your posts and wonder if you actually play games, or just theory this all out.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 27, 2017 17:57:19 GMT
actually, our long time player of Menoth has been trying hard to get a decent list with Harby since MK3 while keeping his main list as Sevy2. Harby's feat has never played a role in his games (I tend to watch them as a double faction) and has often lead to assassinations, as a 10 inch range and the need to approach just doesn't affect combined attacks from 12-14 inches out. Our meta is pretty ruthless, though so that might explain it. On the other hand, when I play feora1, the chance of something catching on fire is 100%, not just on approach. Even with a 1/3 chance to roll the fire out, I generally take half their infantry and even damage a jack or two before they can fight back. If you think a screening unit would make that 10 inch range any more of a threat, check out the cyclops shaman in Skorne. It doesn't matter how cheap the kills are, our meta plays to win... then politely discusses the match in detail and how it could have turned out better
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Post by paradox on Jul 27, 2017 18:09:31 GMT
Cont. fire is not the same as an outright pow14 hit. For all of MKI and II, I used Crusaders Call + feat to lock troop heavy lists in deployment turn 1. It was an execeptionally strong feat, especially in context of MKII. Themes are bringing that context back, but MKIII is different enough that cutting to pow12 might be enough to matter.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 27, 2017 18:48:56 GMT
the issue is in the needed movement. It's NOT outright. All you need to do is not move within the circle or shoot from the outside edge. Whenever he used her feat, we all just didn't move our light infantry units or moved them away from her. If it was an outright pow 12 or pow 14 hit it'd be awesome! so awesome it might be OP at even 10 inches x.O; but as long as you need to voluntarily get closer to her it's a pathetic waste of time that switches players minds from scenario points to assassination, the wrong thing to do in a competition heavy meta.
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Post by paradox on Jul 27, 2017 19:07:16 GMT
the issue is in the needed movement. It's NOT outright. All you need to do is not move within the circle or shoot from the outside edge. Whenever he used her feat, we all just didn't move our light infantry units or moved them away from her. If it was an outright pow 12 or pow 14 hit it'd be awesome! so awesome it might be OP at even 10 inches x.O; but as long as you need to voluntarily get closer to her it's a pathetic waste of time that switches players minds from scenario points to assassination, the wrong thing to do in a competition heavy meta. Correct. Which is why Harbie essentially locked opponents in deployment zones, whereas Feora does not and never has.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 27, 2017 19:17:58 GMT
Harbinger should have her CMD increased to 14 so her abilities have some reach without being suicidal to use. Change her feat to what she did in the fluff bit with her and Reznik. Something like,
"Remove any number of focus points from Harbinger. For each point of focus removed, return one living friendly or enemy warrior model to play completely within Harbinger's command. Returned models become friendly faction solos and return with all damage boxes unmarked.''
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 27, 2017 20:23:51 GMT
Or how about a d3 chance to convert all enemy living models in her cmd x.x that would be awesome. You give her an opening for melee while neutralizing everything else so they have to bring their melee infantry in as close as possible then BOOM and they are dying by their own units
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Post by blydz on Jul 27, 2017 21:48:28 GMT
Or how about a d3 chance to convert all enemy living models in her cmd x.x that would be awesome. You give her an opening for melee while neutralizing everything else so they have to bring their melee infantry in as close as possible then BOOM and they are dying by their own units Back in MKII, Sevy2 already did this trick. That was amusing, but limited in fact. Plus, you loose plenty of time playing with solos that are not even yours... when it was possible to do something with. In most case you just mess with the enemy formation, rarely kill, witch bought you one round before loosing your caster.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jul 29, 2017 14:56:30 GMT
I don't know if someone mentioned it but seriously for the CID i really think the reclaimer needs to be fixed. Like i really miss the old reclaimer i used to run him in many of my lists to hand out focus to jacks. I think they should bring him back. Like they should get rid of his spend a soul to make a cloud ability and instead give him a spend a soul to empower as a no special action.
Granted then they would have to redo the vassal as well but they can just give him the ability to hand out magic weapons or something. Or they can just make it so that the reclaimer focus can't clear disruption and the vassals will be needed to clear distribution so that instead of lists having 2 vassals they instead have a vassal and a reclaimer.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 29, 2017 15:50:35 GMT
Reclaimers are mostly fine. I think that they only need a couple tweaks with their souls to give them 2 additional * actions.
*action: Soul Transfer. Range CMD. Target friendly faction model with soul taker. You may spend any number of soul tokens on this model to place 1 soul token on the target model for each soul token spent.
*action: Spiritual Empowerment. Range 6". Target friendly faction warjack under this model's control. You may spend up to 3 soul tokens on this model to place 1 focus token on the target model for each soul token spent.
This would make Reclaimers good support solos for High Reclaimer because it would eliminate the skornergy with them sharing souls. Now they can just give High Reclaimer the soul if he needs it. It would also give you a compelling reason to Jack Marshal with him because you could still give that jack a full load of focus plus the jack marshal benefit. It also wouldn't step on the Vassal's #designspace.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Jul 29, 2017 16:56:38 GMT
actually, our long time player of Menoth has been trying hard to get a decent list with Harby since MK3 while keeping his main list as Sevy2. Harby's feat has never played a role in his games (I tend to watch them as a double faction) and has often lead to assassinations, as a 10 inch range and the need to approach just doesn't affect combined attacks from 12-14 inches out. Our meta is pretty ruthless, though so that might explain it. On the other hand, when I play feora1, the chance of something catching on fire is 100%, not just on approach. Even with a 1/3 chance to roll the fire out, I generally take half their infantry and even damage a jack or two before they can fight back. If you think a screening unit would make that 10 inch range any more of a threat, check out the cyclops shaman in Skorne. It doesn't matter how cheap the kills are, our meta plays to win... then politely discusses the match in detail and how it could have turned out better I thought you said you were unable to travel to your gaming group due to distance. Did you find a meta closer to you? Then it is time to actually start testing your 'la sigh Feora2 with Judicator awesomeness' On the subject of your PoM buddy. Does he play with Rhoven and a Vigilant? Possibly a Devout/Templar as well? If so, Def 18 and several shield guards should keep you safe from assassinations. If she dies, something went terribly wrong there and that is not the fault of the list, but the player...
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 29, 2017 18:52:41 GMT
Things that ignore cover cut her def back down to 14. However, he doesn't own a vigilant and said the Rhoven + honor guard were his next "to gets;" he needed to get the skrimishers first. He always has a devout and orin (when out of theme) with her, but they generally take the templar away before starting to smash her. It doesn't always end on her feat turn, but it's never really played much an effect since our biggest gamers are either Merc, Khador, or Cygnar... and our merc player is an ass hat who will only play constant tourney goers or people on a win streak (he's constantly testing lists and wants people who won't make stupid mistakes... still an ass hat, but the second best player in the group next to the one who runs it. Apparently he wins whenever he plays Cryx but can't beat him with mercs yet fun to watch their fights) As for me not being near my meta, I went down for just a week in order to drop some stuff off at the house so I said hi to the guys on wednesday (never thought it could be that humid during the night time). I already had most of the week planned for me *grumble mumble* so I didn't bother to bring my list as it was my only time off and I just wanted to sit back and relax. I'll be there permanently come late october, earlier if certain conditions are met.
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Post by djgibraltar on Jul 30, 2017 2:10:41 GMT
You know what greytemplar i love your idea for the reclaimer. making him be able to give focus to his jack marshalled jack would be sweet as hell with redeemers that already have a partial reason to wanna be run by him for the +2 damage.
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Provengreil
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Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jul 30, 2017 12:50:09 GMT
You know what greytemplar i love your idea for the reclaimer. making him be able to give focus to his jack marshalled jack would be sweet as hell with redeemers that already have a partial reason to wanna be run by him for the +2 damage. I think that's exactly the combo stopping it from happening. A marshalled Sanctifier is already bad enough.
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