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Post by Mydnight on Jul 26, 2017 4:21:03 GMT
I think the Cinerators would be good if we could get them to drop a point of armor, gain shield wall, and Righteous Flames. Shield wall on a SPD4 unit is a trap. They have vengeance, granted, but I still don't want them moving at SPD 4 up the board. I'm not sure what to give them though because I've not used them yet. I think that all 5 box MMW infantry could do with +1 arm, and our Bastions could do with Wall of Steel instead of Set Defense. And that's at a minimum for them. Cinnies probably just need a price drop, and Bastions, +2 arm/str pathfinder when damaged. No shield wall please NO not unless they get a senny with reposition or some movement buff.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 26, 2017 11:18:23 GMT
Shield Wall should be bestowed on the defensive oriented troops. Although I am not a Protectorate player, but it is obvious that Cinerators are the shocktrooper branch of Exemplar elite groups, isn't? Wall of Steel seems more fit with them if they need something. I am not surprised when Bastions have Shield Walls despite they don't have any shields, but Shield Wall on Cinerators seems weird.
I am fan of Battle-Driven, but because they have Vengeance I don't think that they have an another damage triggered effects.
What about Ashen Veil? Although I doubt that it is useful that much for them, but at least it is themetic, and DEF 13 is not that bad against ranged attacks. I think that they should have more, or have some discount, though.
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Post by Mydnight on Jul 26, 2017 11:37:54 GMT
In the original fluff, cinerators are the frontline shock troops, and bastions are the follow-up hard hitters. So cinerators should be about being tough and moving fast, while bastions are supposed to hit like trucks.
The only thing they seemed to have kept is that cinnies are 'fast' (for a spd4 unit).
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jul 26, 2017 12:17:34 GMT
um, actually, harby would be spectacular if they altered 2 things... make her abilities ctrl instead of command and give her some attack spells that actually work x.x First off, cataclysm is perfectly fine, though I would enjoy having it auto hit again since most targets will be engaged.
Second, 20" radius Martyrdom means Harbinger is never in danger ever again. We can drop all her defensive warjacks and shield guards and what all, put some of those points into a revenger to get her debuff out, and keep her at deployment. This can't happen. All she needs is a weaker feat that is TOTALLY different from her current one that still affects control.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jul 26, 2017 14:51:33 GMT
Her feat should be that for one round all her abilities use ctrl instead of cmd. And maybe some healing or something.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 26, 2017 17:36:40 GMT
her cmd is only 10 which is a lower effect radius than any caster in the game other than the few focus/fury 5 casters. The least you could do is give her a 14 or so with ashes to ashes. cataclysm, when attacking anything at range, becomes so weak that it's not even worth it. Pow 20 that loses 1 pow for every inch means 8 inches away it's already Pow 12. Go through an arc node and it's practically null
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 26, 2017 17:47:46 GMT
If I can change Harbinger's feat, then I will change the feat that 'For one round, advancing enemy models that end their movement within 5" of the friendly Faction models within Harbinger's control range closer to it than they began suffer an unboostable POW 14 fire damage roll.' I am not surprised that I am not the first people to say this.
Honestly, the feat of Harbinger is no more than a joke. It is only more usable than Temporal Barrier's SPD -2 part, but it doesn't means that it is usable on the real games. it must be changed.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 26, 2017 17:59:50 GMT
yeah, with it only spreading out 10 inches it's completely pointless. At least with 20 inches you'd really force infantry into a tight spot.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jul 26, 2017 18:14:34 GMT
If I can change Harbinger's feat, then I will change the feat that 'For one round, advancing enemy models that end their movement within 5" of the friendly Faction models within Harbinger's control range closer to it than they began suffer an unboostable POW 14 fire damage roll.' I am not surprised that I am not the first people to say this. Honestly, the feat of Harbinger is no more than a joke. It is only more usable than Temporal Barrier's SPD -2 part, but it doesn't means that it is usable on the real games. it must be changed. I remember saying something similar, though contingent upon attacking, within about 20 minutes of getting the feat spoiled.
Temporal barrier needs to remove 2" of remaining movement upon entering the 8 inches. as is, it'll stop....Crusaders I guess.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 26, 2017 18:19:14 GMT
yeah, with it only spreading out 10 inches it's completely pointless. At least with 20 inches you'd really force infantry into a tight spot. Maybe 20" is a bit much, sure, but 10" is simply meaningless. -_-
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Jul 26, 2017 18:38:23 GMT
yeah, with it only spreading out 10 inches it's completely pointless. At least with 20 inches you'd really force infantry into a tight spot. Maybe 20" is a bit much, sure, but 10" is simply meaningless. -_- I think that's the problem with Harby. Her effect will either be too big (CTRL) or too small (CMD), or arbitrarily chosen. If it has to be small, then I'd rather that it was powerful.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jul 26, 2017 19:57:12 GMT
Probably been discussed already, but would changing the wording to end their activations in her control range help? At least the enemy would have an activation to put out some hurt before eating a fireball.
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Post by paradox on Jul 26, 2017 20:04:03 GMT
I sometimes wonder if the shift to MKIII ended up in an over-nerf of her feat. Jack/beast heavy list never really struggled with it, and they are now much more viable. Making it CTRL again and maybe unboostable POW12? Sure, still hoses lots of troops, but, well....
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 27, 2017 2:44:19 GMT
And how is that not a nerfed Feora1 feat? x.x; The only way I can think of fixing this is to up her cmd to 12 or 15 and make it unboostable (there are specific abilities that can be given that gives +2 to cmd) Though, tbh, I always thought her feat should be an extra di on fire elemental damage roles, which would work even better on the feoras but might make them OP. And still, big issue of not having a spell like Ashes to Ashes
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 27, 2017 6:41:42 GMT
it's a better feora1 feat, because it doesn't have a 1\3 chance of dropping out, works better against troops with shield wall (until one survives,) and doesn't randomly stop working against trolls and things with aegis.
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