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Post by Gaston on Jul 20, 2017 12:28:50 GMT
Hey All,
I've been fiddling with Rayvn a lot recently because why not, and came up with this:
Rayvn, Forges of War -Helios -Manticore -Manticore Artificer (free) -Aspis Artificer (free) -Aspis Arcanist Mechanik Arcanist Mechanik House Shyeel Arcanists Battle Mages Battle Mages
I figured I'd toss it out there to see what people thought!
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Post by adakai on Jul 20, 2017 14:28:31 GMT
Hi Gaston!
Can you explain the MO for the list?
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Post by Gaston on Jul 20, 2017 14:44:35 GMT
I have been kicking around a few concepts that ended up in the list.
First, Rayvn herself: Snipe for Helios (or where needed), Vortex on herself, Veil as some LoS protection.
Then the concept is to use Helios and the Battle Mages to isolate an opponent's heavy and pull them in. Ravyn moves up to get them in melee, drops the LoS blocker, and all the damage rolls are boosted. This really only needs to happen once or twice for there to be a large attrition swing because Helios with the Repulsor field can get incredibly difficult to deal with unchecked.
The second concept I wanted to explore is that Jack Marshals are underrated, particularly in Ret where there is focus flying around like confetti. I selected this theme in particular because a) Rayvn will be sticking her neck out and shield guards are nice, but b) you get free Marshals in theme. The Aspisii were chosen simply because they are cheap. With Crusher, Concentrated Power, 3 Focus, and Vortex of Destruction, a single Aspis can put 6 Pow 15 WM attacks into a single target, an average of 36 damage on to an Arm 19 heavy. Obviously Griffons and Chimeras make equally interesting considerations, it just came down to point cost.
In addition to these elements, the Manticores can provide infantry control, work with the feat, and with Locomotion, CP, and 3 focus have a max 13" threat with 3 Pow 20s, or 10" threat with 4 Pow 20s. And if needed/practical/safe Vortex can be stacked on top of this. The Battle Mages contribute both to the control and can clear infantry with 2 attacks each in melee and a magical attack, and are difficult to retaliate against with guns.
Overall, it feels like the list is capable of making strong use of her spells, has significant control aspects, strong attrition, and outputs a surprising amount of damage. I was trying to come up with something dynamic and interesting for her.
Also it is symmetrically beautiful.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 20, 2017 15:04:44 GMT
Why Aspis when every jack is a shield guard?? I like mages/Helios being able to drag stuff through the covering fire templates aspect of the list.
Edit: I think I'd find a way to bring 1 Hydra on a single marshall than 2 Aspii.
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Post by adakai on Jul 20, 2017 18:07:40 GMT
Thanks for the explanation Gaston. I definitely want to give this list a try.
I do like hte idea of finding a way to squeeze in griffons instead of aspis for this list. I have always found life being a little more difficult with just 0.5" reach.
Isotope - in this list particularly (which runs a really low volume of attacks) I think having 2 lights is almost necessary. I know that for me, I do have trouble getting myself tied up when I run low model count lists.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 20, 2017 18:49:25 GMT
Why Aspis when every jack is a shield guard?? I like mages/Helios being able to drag stuff through the covering fire templates aspect of the list. Edit: I think I'd find a way to bring 1 Hydra on a single marshall than 2 Aspii. The Aspis is because of point cost. I like them over a Hydra because they make for cheap trades, the plan is to try to trade one up for a heavy.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 20, 2017 18:49:59 GMT
Thanks for the explanation Gaston. I definitely want to give this list a try. I do like hte idea of finding a way to squeeze in griffons instead of aspis for this list. I have always found life being a little more difficult with just 0.5" reach. Isotope - in this list particularly (which runs a really low volume of attacks) I think having 2 lights is almost necessary. I know that for me, I do have trouble getting myself tied up when I run low model count lists. I did start with Griffons, but couldn't fit in everything I wanted, namely the second unit of Battle Mages. I did run the numbers on them, and versus the heavy jack scenario I calculated out they did +4 damage over an Aspis. Obviously they have other benefits too, such as Pathfinder, Reach, Shield. Alas, what can you do?
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Post by adakai on Jul 20, 2017 19:51:35 GMT
Also, are you Gaston from Advanced Maneuvers?
I have a hard time taking House Shyeel Arcanists. Although with the SR2017 they do seem to be functional for zone scoring. But I wonder if 3 arcanist solos w/ option of helios broadcast power would be enough focus for this list? Upgrading the 2 aspis for 2 griffons and adding a soulless to one of the mittens.
Just playing around with it. It seems like such an interesting list with some really tricky threat ranges. In an era of premeasuring, it could still catch our opponent by surprise. Can't wait to drop it. I'll let you know how the game goes when I do.
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Post by Sylvos on Jul 20, 2017 20:43:12 GMT
How is a single aspis putting out 6 attacks? 2 Initials + 3 focus = five. Did I miss something?
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Post by elladan52 on Jul 20, 2017 20:44:52 GMT
Crusher gives you an extra attack.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 20, 2017 20:54:16 GMT
My ony concern is aspis does not contribute to the fight early nor does it synergize with the feat. Sadly the new Harpy will not be allowed in that theme.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 20, 2017 21:46:08 GMT
Also, are you Gaston from Advanced Maneuvers? Yup I have a hard time taking House Shyeel Arcanists. Although with the SR2017 they do seem to be functional for zone scoring. But I wonder if 3 arcanist solos w/ option of helios broadcast power would be enough focus for this list? Upgrading the 2 aspis for 2 griffons and adding a soulless to one of the mittens. That is because Shyeel Arcanists are terrible (for now, wait for the Vyre light spam). It could be enough, but then there is no room for error with either losing a solo, or position for broadcast power. And it also forces you to clump up even more, which I am not a super fan of. But if you don't want to spend the $$$ (I don't blame you), then yeah, could work. Just playing around with it. It seems like such an interesting list with some really tricky threat ranges. In an era of premeasuring, it could still catch our opponent by surprise. Can't wait to drop it. I'll let you know how the game goes when I do. Do it!!!!
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Post by Gaston on Jul 20, 2017 21:48:22 GMT
My ony concern is aspis does not contribute to the fight early nor does it synergize with the feat. Sadly the new Harpy will not be allowed in that theme. All valid points and concerns!
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Post by adakai on Jul 20, 2017 22:14:37 GMT
Oh nice. I love all the advanced maneuvers videos. Great job on them man, I learn a lot from watching you play Retribution. Very insightful game play.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 20, 2017 22:37:11 GMT
Oh nice. I love all the advanced maneuvers videos. Great job on them man, I learn a lot from watching you play Retribution. Very insightful game play. More than you'll learn from my games! Still need more mk3 practice. Luckily my playstyle caters well to SR17 rules.
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