blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jul 21, 2017 19:24:03 GMT
As far as hoping for errata
From Jay Larsen's FB post: A few things were illuminated in the dev talk today: (a few days ago)
-the developers are going to be working to make sure that every model is available to play in theme. Their target is the end of the year.
-the developers are going to slow down the rate of errata in the game. Players are going to need to drive the meta and shape it. Privateer Press won't be doing things like errata for Denny 1 or Ghost Fleet. Players will need to work to solve these match ups. Players can be confident that models they buy will be stable and the meta won't be in a constant state of flux due to frequent errata from the developers.
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Post by dmorktry on Jul 21, 2017 19:34:21 GMT
So basically "if you're stuff can't beat Ghost Fleet then you should go out and buy minis that can" what the Firetruck are they doing, that is actually an absurd philosophy and enough to lean me towards quitting the game, PPS_Strawman is literally going
">tfw too intelligent to lose to Ghost Fleet"
PP thinks their game is borderline flawless, the only problem is the player not buying enough niche models to have the option to stand a chance
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 21, 2017 19:45:48 GMT
So basically "if you're stuff can't beat Ghost Fleet then you should go out and buy minis that can" what the Firetruck are they doing, that is actually an absurd philosophy and enough to lean me towards quitting the game, PPS_Strawman is literally going ">tfw too intelligent to lose to Ghost Fleet" PP thinks their game is borderline flawless, the only problem is the player not buying enough niche models to have the option to stand a chance I wish I could have seen the mental gymnastics routine you performed to get to this.
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 21, 2017 19:51:36 GMT
It's more that there was sla ton of community outcry against the constant errata.
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Post by WantonRanger on Jul 21, 2017 21:59:12 GMT
So basically "if you're stuff can't beat Ghost Fleet then you should go out and buy minis that can" what the Firetruck are they doing, that is actually an absurd philosophy and enough to lean me towards quitting the game, PPS_Strawman is literally going ">tfw too intelligent to lose to Ghost Fleet" PP thinks their game is borderline flawless, the only problem is the player not buying enough niche models to have the option to stand a chance I wish I could have seen the mental gymnastics routine you performed to get to this. I think he means that the expense required to make highly skewed lists just to counter one overpowered list is a bit much... no-one wants to have to buy huge numbers of models just to counter a small part of the meta and then have to buy a shedload more models to counter the next skewed list that arises... so PP is currently pushing people into new sales by 1) the mk3 changes to factions invalidating old staples 2) theme lists pushing multiples units/solos like never before 3) and now via an inability to errata appropriately >> forcing people to buy to counter a few lists. Yes there is a chance that a good meta can develop but what if the overpowered lists are just too overpowered. Warmachine does not have the flexibility or breadth of say magic the gathering...to provide quick easy counters. >> these changes are all very lovely but hugely expensive for the players
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 21, 2017 22:06:53 GMT
It's more that there was sla ton of community outcry against the constant errata. Pretty much this. Friggin relax people.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jul 21, 2017 22:16:42 GMT
I wish I could have seen the mental gymnastics routine you performed to get to this. I think he means that the expense required to make highly skewed lists just to counter one overpowered list is a bit much... no-one wants to have to buy huge numbers of models just to counter a small part of the meta and then have to buy a shedload more models to counter the next skewed list that arises... so PP is currently pushing people into new sales by 1) the mk3 changes to factions invalidating old staples 2) theme lists pushing multiples units/solos like never before 3) and now via an inability to errata appropriately >> forcing people to buy to counter a few lists. Yes there is a chance that a good meta can develop but what if the overpowered lists are just too overpowered. Warmachine does not have the flexibility or breadth of say magic the gathering...to provide quick easy counters. >> these changes are all very lovely but hugely expensive for the players Thanks for the translation work. I disagree, but I now understand.
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Post by Demeritus on Jul 21, 2017 22:32:43 GMT
It's more that there was sla ton of community outcry against the constant errata. A more living rulebook is neat but it also made it trickier for people to plan purchases. I do think some of their nerfs initially were in response to people complaining without wanting to figure out a way to deal with it while others made sense. I am glad they are going to be slowing down on model errata.
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 21, 2017 22:47:19 GMT
I think the issue was that it seemed like we would be getting errata something like every month, and if they were all going to be as large as the BE errata be in for a ride. Grant you, I think giving the lists that dominated L&L this year a pass wouldn't be a bad idea, but if they want to scale back the nerf errata and focus on themes that's fine by me.
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Post by dazzla on Jul 21, 2017 23:33:09 GMT
I think the issue was that it seemed like we would be getting errata something like every month, and if they were all going to be as large as the BE errata be in for a ride. Grant you, I think giving the lists that dominated L&L this year a pass wouldn't be a bad idea, but if they want to scale back the nerf errata and focus on themes that's fine by me. I think erratas should be on a six month cycle and should be done using small incremental changes where possible. I think that erratas are important for game balance. For new models I suggest interesting rather than powerful.
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Alealexi
BattleBox Champ
Burning heritecs and wracking as always... it's a personal hobby.
Posts: 55
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Post by Alealexi on Jul 22, 2017 0:08:04 GMT
Available synergy for champs: - Chronicler for concealment so 14 def vs shooting on the approach - Unit of warders behind them for arm 20 shield guards for any shots that come their way - Borka1 for arcane ward +2 def and spell imunity can combine with point 1 to ensure always def 16 - Madrak 1 sure foot for +2 def same as Borka - Horgle inviolable resolve for +2 arm making them arm 20 under the stone but you can put that on the shield guard unit instead - Calandra for star crossed makes them really hard to hit - Grissel 2 for deflection - Gunnbjorn for ranged attack immunity on the turn it counts - Jarl for quicken and cloud defense - Ragnor for feat turn against shooting If people are having trouble delivering Champs they only have their own lack of imagination to blame. Protectorate has a similar dearth of options for Bastions and Cinerators but the difference is we don't also have a universal +2 arm swing to rely on. Bastions with defenders ward under something similar to the stone? Yeah that'd see play. Well it seems that they just made Champ more viable bastions by giving madrak1 Even Ground. Effectively giving them more def against melee.
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 22, 2017 1:19:00 GMT
*more def period
Also, he has a mass healing feat. fingers crossed for Kreoss2 now, if this is what they'll do!
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Post by charlzheimer on Jul 22, 2017 9:06:50 GMT
yeah they are better bastions.
this currently doesn't bother me at all. the protectorate cid will come eventually and who knows bastions will get buffed then.
as for pp change in stance about theme forces beeing broken => they are worried about over nerfing or nerfing too fast.
they don't want the backlash they had after mad dogs and una2 and basicly WAIT and see how toxic something really is.
IF after 1-2 years ghostfleet still is Firetrucking busted and op as Firetruck...if ghostfleet DEMANDS you to bring a cryx counter like in mk2 they will nerf ghost fleet. as for "buy more models to fix shit" logic....this doesn't apply to everyone complaining about this and they know it.
most folk who are loud about this pretty much "own" their entire faction.
edit: despite all this...i admit and agree that our heavy infantry is gimped.
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Post by dmorktry on Jul 22, 2017 10:51:19 GMT
With this new policy PP would have left Skorne the way they were, after all, the players hadn't had enough time to drive the Skorne meta and shape it. PP is almost becoming notorious for their arrogance, if anything new ever gets to Ghost Fleet levels or even higher it's just going to be "Oh you're having trouble with x? My secret list seems to handle them fine (try to guess it.)". It's just more of the same of playtesting their game to make sure erratas are absolutely necessary, even if they're not that doesn't mean they still can't be helpful. If Ghost Fleet is still considered one of the top lists after 1-2 years people are just going to quit. Maybe they just shouldn't release themes that reward such unabashed spamming or haven't been properly playtested, then they wouldn't have to worry about backlash.
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Post by Cryptix on Jul 22, 2017 13:26:37 GMT
With this new policy PP would have left Skorne the way they were, after all, the players hadn't had enough time to drive the Skorne meta and shape it. PP is almost becoming notorious for their arrogance, if anything new ever gets to Ghost Fleet levels or even higher it's just going to be "Oh you're having trouble with x? My secret list seems to handle them fine (try to guess it.)". It's just more of the same of playtesting their game to make sure erratas are absolutely necessary, even if they're not that doesn't mean they still can't be helpful. If Ghost Fleet is still considered one of the top lists after 1-2 years people are just going to quit. Maybe they just shouldn't release themes that reward such unabashed spamming or haven't been properly playtested, then they wouldn't have to worry about backlash. Ghost Fleet is not the problem, Deneghra is. The only build just uses Feat + Scourge + Crippling Grasp to assassinate or Crippling Grasp + Parasite to attrition. No one would have taken it without the regeneration even needed for Revs to function. Don't need a finally useable unit because of one caster.
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