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Post by The Trane on Jul 17, 2017 12:13:19 GMT
In this Chain Attack episode: chain-attack.com/season2/TAPS/13-Grymkin--Chain_Attack_TAPS.mp3Will Pagani elaborates a bit around some Grymkin lists. The Heretic [+28] Theme: Bump in the Night– Crabbits (2) [7] – Gorehound [6] – Gorehound [6] – Rattler [8] Lord Longfellow [0(6)] Hollowmen (max) [13] – Lantern Man [0(3)] Hollowmen (max) [13] – Lantern Man [0(3)] Murder Crows [9] Murder Crows [9] Neigh Slayers (max) [12] Neigh Slayers (max) [12] Twilight Sisters [7] The Child [+29] Theme: Dark Menagerie– Cage Rager [14] – Crabbit (DM) [0(100!)] – Crabbit (DM) [0(100!)] – Crabbit (DM) [0(100!)] – Crabbit (DM) [0(100!)] – Gorehound [6] – Gorehound [6] – Rattler [8] – Skin & Moans [15] – Skin & Moans [15] Death Knell [13] Glimmer Imp [4] Gremlin Swarm [3] Gremlin Swarm [3] Gremlin Swarm [3] Gremlin Swarm [3] Lady Krianna Rose [4] Dread Rots (min) [7] The Dreamer [+28] Theme: Bump in the Night
– Phantasm – Cage Rager [14] – Crabbit (2) [7] – Rattler [8] – Rattler [8] – Rattler [8] Glimmer Imp [0(4)] Lord Longfellow [0(6)] Hollowmen (max) [13] – Lantern Man [3] Mad Caps [4] Mad Caps [4] Neigh Slayers [12] Piggybacks [15] Twilight Sisters [7] King of Nothing [+28] Theme: Dark Menagerie– Cage Rager [14] – Crabbit (DM) [0] – Crabbit (DM) [0] – Crabbit (DM) [0] – Crabbit (DM) [0] – Crabbit (2) [7] – Crabbit (2) [7] – Frightmare [9] – Gorehound [6] – Gorehound [6] – Gorehound [6] – Rattler [8] – Rattler [8] – Rattler [8] Glimmer Imp [4] Gremlin Swarm [0(3)] Gremlin Swarm [3] Gremlin Swarm [3] Gremlin Swarm [3] Lady Karianna Rose [4] Dread Rots (min) [7] The Wanderer [+28] Theme: Dark Menagerie – Cage Rager [14] – Crabbit (2) [7] – Crabbit (2) [7] Death Knell [13] Cask Imp [1] Cask Imp [1] Lord Longfellow [0(6)] Trapperkin [3] Trapperkin [3] Witchwood [5] Witchwood [5] Mad Caps [4] Mad Caps [4] Neigh Slayers [12] Neigh Slayers [12] Piggybacks [15] Twilight Sisters [7] Zevanna Agha, The Fate Keeper [27] Theme: Dark Menagerie
– Cage Rager [14] – Crabbit (DM) [0] – Crabbit (DM) [0] – Crabbit (DM) [0] – Frightmare [9] – Frightmare [9] – Skin & Moans [15] – Skin & Moans [15] Death Knell Gremlin Swarm [0(3)] Gremlin Swarm [3] Gremlin Swarm [3] Gremlin Swarm [3] Lady Karianna Rose [4] Dread Rots (max) [12] As far as I picked it up, at least ... The podcast gives you some interesting insight into these lists, but I guess there might be more to say ...?
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 17, 2017 15:02:12 GMT
That's close to what starting lists I made with grymkins. Heretic seems to be the best one for infantry spam. Child is classic caster with big battlegroup that wants hard-hitting heavies. Dreamer and Wanderer can go either way, they will probably end up being combined arms. King of nothing wants light spam. He's the weirdest one. And witch isn't even a proper grymkin caster so why bother.
I'm surprised at lack of Death knell in some lists. It's sort of obligatory support piece like Krielstone or Choir. King of nothing is probably the only one where it can make some sense not to take it, though still not much.
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Provengreil
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Post by Provengreil on Jul 17, 2017 21:39:18 GMT
not ready to comment on the list builds themselves, but the 100 point crabbits you put ! on were probably a programming issue: Warbeasts haven't been free before, IIRC, so the objects might not have had that trait. Easier to make a new one and cost it uselessly high than change the basic object and probably break 4 other things.
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Post by BrotherGrym on Jul 18, 2017 1:08:30 GMT
I would think that the Wanderer might like at least 1 Skin and Moans in his list, just for the versatility a free casting of Bushwhack can give him with his spray. Shooting and then moving is quite helpful for that, since it puts Flare and (effective) Hunter's Mark on everything it hits, and then allows the Wanderer to get out of the way for those charges.
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Post by The Trane on Jul 18, 2017 5:15:46 GMT
[...] the 100 point crabbits you put ! on were probably a programming issue [...] Figured as much, but I must say it looks a bit absurd
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Post by gribble on Jul 18, 2017 9:18:19 GMT
I'm surprised at lack of Death knell in some lists. It's sort of obligatory support piece like Krielstone or Choir. King of nothing is probably the only one where it can make some sense not to take it, though still not much. The only lists without them (apart from KoN) are The Heretic and the The Dreamer. The Heretic list has nothing much worth ARM buffing, and no beasts which can use corpses, so that makes sense. The Dreamer list is admittedly a little odd... it has a cage rager (who wants the corpses) and piggybacks (which want the ARM buff). But equally it's hard to say what you'd cut out to fit in a death knell. Probably a rattler and the two units of mad caps? Then the battlegroup starts looking a bit light. Maybe the piggybacks? Then the case for having the death knell in the first place is weaker.
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Post by gribble on Jul 18, 2017 9:38:10 GMT
Generally I like the lists. Ran something kind of similar with the Wanderer over the weekend and it worked well. I had 2x S&M (to make use of the Wanderer's spray and getting to DEF 15 / ARM 21 vs shooting when fully buffed) and 2x hollowmen instead of the CR, piggybacks and neighslayers. Contemplating replacing one of the S&M with a CR for arcane vortex (if needed) and wraithbane... though with all the buffs the S&M hit hard and accurately enough I think, and the crabits can always soak up nasty debuffs.
The idea is the cask imps and mad caps create carnage up front (or have to be dealt with, distracting the opponents and generating corpses for the DK), the hollowmen follow up behind and deal with survivors and put damage onto bigger targets (also to die and fuel the DK, then come back to repeat), the Wanderer advances behind his witchwood wall up the middle of the table with his S&M, crabbits, and DK. Once heavy targets are in range the Wanderer sprays them, the witchwoods port aside (and move any charge lane blockers) and the S&Ms charge them. Will probably pair with either Child or Dreamer / Rattlers to deal with Jack spam opponents.
Theme: Bump in the Night
The Wanderer - WB: +28 - Skin & Moans - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Skin & Moans - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Crabbit - PC: 7 - Crabbit
Death Knell - PC: 13
Witchwood - PC: 0 Witchwood - PC: 0 Cask Imp - 2 Cask Imps: 1 Cask Imp - 2 Cask Imps: 1 Lord Longfellow - PC: 0 Glimmer Imp - PC: 4
Hollowmen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Lantern Man - PC: 3 Hollowmen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Lantern Man - PC: 3 Mad Caps - Boss & 2 Grunts: 4 Mad Caps - Boss & 2 Grunts: 4 Twilight Sisters - Heidrun & Agrona: 7
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Post by smoothcriminal on Jul 18, 2017 11:53:04 GMT
The only lists without them (apart from KoN) are The Heretic and the The Dreamer. The Heretic list has nothing much worth ARM buffing, and no beasts which can use corpses, so that makes sense. The Dreamer list is admittedly a little odd... it has a cage rager (who wants the corpses) and piggybacks (which want the ARM buff). But equally it's hard to say what you'd cut out to fit in a death knell. Probably a rattler and the two units of mad caps? Then the battlegroup starts looking a bit light. Maybe the piggybacks? Then the case for having the death knell in the first place is weaker. I think Heretic should have obligatory Rager because how otherwise you're gonna cast those sweet rebukes and dispels? And the only reliable way to get corpses on Rager in infantry theme is through Death Knell if I'm not mistaken. The other interesting way may be to pick Menagerie theme and you get your working arcnode from the start and can still take 3x dreadrots. The challenge will be how to fill the rest of the list without taking Death knell because S&M also would like to have it.
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Post by gribble on Jul 18, 2017 13:32:00 GMT
I think Heretic should have obligatory Rager because how otherwise you're gonna cast those sweet rebukes and dispels? And the only reliable way to get corpses on Rager in infantry theme is through Death Knell if I'm not mistaken. The other interesting way may be to pick Menagerie theme and you get your working arcnode from the start and can still take 3x dreadrots. The challenge will be how to fill the rest of the list without taking Death knell because S&M also would like to have it. Sure, but what you're talking about are different lists. I'm simply pointing out the reasons why it makes sense not to have the death knell in *this* particular list. FWIW, I don't actually think The Heretic needs a CR. He is survivable enough that he can play further forward without arcing spells. I can see what Pagani is going for with the list. The hollowmen, and gorehounds push forward towards your opponent, the neighslayers screened behind. The opponent will have to kill hollowmen (they recurse anyway), and then you trigger his trump, the murder crows ambush, the neighslayers charge in and the world burns... I don't see what a death knell or CR would really add to that list.
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Post by Cookielol on Jul 26, 2017 17:28:44 GMT
So with the Crabbits in DM...are the "100Pt" ones (Taken under theme,) a pair or a single model? I bought three Blisters of them, and wondering if thats enough for the average build.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
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Post by Provengreil on Jul 26, 2017 18:17:01 GMT
So with the Crabbits in DM...are the "100Pt" ones (Taken under theme,) a pair or a single model? I bought three Blisters of them, and wondering if thats enough for the average build. his list with the child implies that free crabbits are singular as they don't have a (2) next to them, which is much more acceptable than how I was reading it at first.
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Post by Cookielol on Jul 26, 2017 18:36:44 GMT
So with the Crabbits in DM...are the "100Pt" ones (Taken under theme,) a pair or a single model? I bought three Blisters of them, and wondering if thats enough for the average build. his list with the child implies that free crabbits are singular as they don't have a (2) next to them, which is much more acceptable than how I was reading it at first.
Okay, great. Thanks for that clarification. So seems like 3 blisters of them are an average of "enough." Same like owning three S&Ms. I didnt want the third, but Ive seen them ran like that already.
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Provengreil
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Post by Provengreil on Jul 26, 2017 18:41:52 GMT
his list with the child implies that free crabbits are singular as they don't have a (2) next to them, which is much more acceptable than how I was reading it at first.
Okay, great. Thanks for that clarification. So seems like 3 blisters of them are an average of "enough." Same like owning three S&Ms. I didnt want the third, but Ive seen them ran like that already. yeah, I'd think more than 8 crabbits would be too much outside of some pocket build. Maybe King of Nothing crabbit spam to trigger that warbeast death spell thingamajobber.
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Post by Voodoogk on Jul 26, 2017 22:08:19 GMT
In War Room the crabbits are 100 specifically so you cannot buy single crabbits without using the free model cost. Its just a method of keeping the singles from getting confused with the 2 pack. Theres no way you would normally be able to buy a single crabbit out side of dark menagerie and it keeps you from doing so. And yeah, dark menagerie is definitely a single solo crabbit per freebie. so 4 max free crabbits on the table (at 75 points anywhoo)
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Post by robobengt on Aug 1, 2017 9:03:02 GMT
You can get more than 4 free crabbits though.
King of Nothing + 28 12 x 2 Crabits = 84 Gorehound 6 This is 90 points granting you 6 free stuff. So 4 gremlin swarms and 2 more crabits. Add a death knell for some reason and you're good to go.
Enjoy running your 26 crabbits!
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