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Post by greytemplar on Aug 1, 2017 4:08:26 GMT
Yeah. Thats the problem in general with PP's design process. They make units with a mind to what other stuff does to them, without considering what happens when you don't have that stuff. As a result we get things which are awful outside of certain list builds and stuff which isn't properly costed for it's abilities.
Errants are designed as if they always have Defenders Ward. Which means they're ok when they have Defenders Ward and awful when they don't.
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Post by Mydnight on Aug 1, 2017 6:15:16 GMT
"A decorated war hero of the Exemplar errants, Warder Elias Gade leads his team of pious knights on crucial missions into enemy territory. Operating far from the Protectorate of Menoth, Gade relies on a lifetime of battlefield experience and his unshakable faith to secure victory. The whistling of his blessed crossbow bolts have presaged the deaths of countless unbelievers, and by his hand many more will fall.
TRADE POINTS: Elias Gade is a strong combat solo that helps provide support to Exemplar Errants (PIP 32088) and Exemplar Errant Seneschals (PIP 32067). Any warcaster with strong buffs such as Feora, The Conquering Flame (32126) or Grand Scrutator Severius (PIP 32114) will make great use of this new solo."
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 1, 2017 14:19:28 GMT
Yeah. Thats the problem in general with PP's design process. They make units with a mind to what other stuff does to them, without considering what happens when you don't have that stuff. As a result we get things which are awful outside of certain list builds and stuff which isn't properly costed for it's abilities. Errants are designed as if they always have Defenders Ward. Which means they're ok when they have Defenders Ward and awful when they don't. and then they pop it off with their own minifeat.
Should "Blessings" become the new "Skornergy"?
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Post by greytemplar on Aug 1, 2017 15:22:53 GMT
Sounds like he has Leadership[Exemplar Errant] or Elite Cadre[Exemplar Errant] for something. Hopefully a shooting buff of some kind.
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 1, 2017 16:01:18 GMT
Imb4 veteran leader errants
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 1, 2017 19:54:58 GMT
Elite Cadre [Exemplar Errants] - Exemplar Errants gain Ricochet
Ricochet - When this model misses a model with a ranged attack, nothing happens. The attack does not deviate or have any secondary effects. Move on to the next attack.
Privateer Press errata soon after the release of the Errant Solo;
Exemplar Errants Remove Ricochet rule. Exemplar Errants were performing above their intended space and are outshining other options in faction. We hope this change will bring them into line.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 1, 2017 23:40:01 GMT
It's like there's a contest in this thread to see who can be the most negative.
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 2, 2017 0:55:28 GMT
Imb4 i win. There we don't need to have the contest. Result is predetermined. Now onto other things.
I seriously think they'll make him a competent shooty solo that has veteran leader errants. Cause they don't want him to buff errants to hard cause then it will be too much inventive top build errant lists in company of iron and i doubt they want that.
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Post by Mydnight on Aug 2, 2017 1:00:53 GMT
Imb4 i win. There we don't need to have the contest. Result is predetermined. Now onto other things. I seriously think they'll make him a competent shooty solo that has veteran leader errants. Cause they don't want him to buff errants to hard cause then it will be too much inventive top build errant lists in company of iron and i doubt they want that. Veteran leader would make him a better UA than the errant UA.
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Post by k0rhil on Aug 2, 2017 2:00:50 GMT
Due simply to the fact that he is our representative in the company of iron exclusive models I will own him. With the small caveat if he is such a hideous sculpt that I can't bring myself to assemble or paint it. My interest is peaked because if he does something to pull errants out of mediocrity then I'll have to go out and buy the unit. PP has me a little concerned on the selling points in that they are very vague and no picture that I have seen yet. My wishlist would be attack types like gun mages, Gorman, Eiryss, etc and give them to the errants. I guess it's all the years of comic heroes with gimmick arrows.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Aug 2, 2017 10:08:42 GMT
It's like there's a contest in this thread to see who can be the most negative. I'm playing on an old joke that went around before Tristan 2 came out. There was an ironic joke that went something like: True sight: granted to warjacks in his battle group Limited battle group: this model can only have warjacks without ranged weapons in his battle group Either or; I think the solo is probably a good thing for the exemplar errants, and indicates that they are aware that the errants are in a spot of bother at the moment. They're a fairly expensive package overall for what is effectively a "speed bump" unit. I mean when you look at the on paper they're pretty good. The full package has loads of abilities, but they don't actually add up to the 24 points. Unyielding is great on the unit...! But they're only reach 0.5" so they struggle to get it. Purity is great...! Except it'll knock off friendly spells as well. There's a bit of casual skornegy that seems to have found its way into the unit at the start of MK3 which is unfortunate, and purity reminds me of the vessel of judgement, which at one point knocked off ALL upkeeps, regardless of friendly or enemy. I've actually played them with harbinger in my original test list and they were really good with martyrdom, but they couldn't reach far enough to defend with 0.5" reach so I traded them in for the knight exemplar unit with UA which seems to have been better value, especially since then I could afford more high quality solos on top. I'm struggling to remember what they had in mk3, I think the only thing they've lost is quick work, which was situationally very good.
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Post by Mydnight on Aug 2, 2017 10:58:34 GMT
I'm struggling to remember what they had in mk3, I think the only thing they've lost is quick work, which was situationally very good. Pathfinder. And a proper spell ward. Quick work and assault are kinda tied I guess.
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Post by blydz on Aug 2, 2017 12:07:03 GMT
I have to say, I'm kinda worry about this exemplar hero. I mean, sure, I'm waiting to see what he's gonna really do, but if he's here only for Errants, that sucks.
Errants with UA and senny it's already 24 pts, we can assume without too much doubt that he'll cost 4 pts (at least). So 28 pts for one full buffed errants unit ? Come on... that's not serious. Errant unit and UA have been nerfed with MKIII, errant senny doesn't add so much, and suddenly a hero has arrived and errants will be good again ? Yeah sure.... and Vengers hidding in a forest waiting for pathfinder is a wining strategy.
I can only hope that he will do something for the others exemplar units too.
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Post by W0lfBane on Aug 2, 2017 14:50:45 GMT
I've only ever had to use the put your battle driven troops in rough terrain and hope for the best when i was having trouble unpacking my army. Cause dudes. Dudes everywhere
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Aug 2, 2017 14:52:32 GMT
Rather than pay more points to fix the errants, I'd prefer they just....fix the errants. We have 2 of the more effective small-based tarpits in the game already: TFG take several rounds to eliminate most times and can bring Pyrrhus, while Zealots can get nearly the whole unit back a lot of the time, then throw bombs. We don't need more tarpits.
The crux of the issue is that errants don't really have a proper role, even in their own theme. Skirmishing? Idrians. Revenge Mechanics? KE, Cinerators, Vengers. Blessed? warjacks. Advance deploy? Idrians again. Cost? KE. Anti-spell? only for one turn, and at the expense of anything you wanted to buff them with. that's....pretty much everything.
I think we need, at many times, to break out of our boxes and get something unique. My first buff in line to errants, at no cost, would be immunity to grievous wounds and can ALWAYS have damage removed from them, even when something else says they can't. Then transform the seneschal entirely, removing unyielding(virtually everything with a .5 inch range that gets used is a weaponmaster or has anatomical anyway) in favor of pathfinder, because the expert elite scout needs friggen pathfinder. For a start.
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