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Post by drakkenblut on Jul 13, 2017 9:18:40 GMT
I do agree Everblight will not eat another dragon in the near future (for other reasons), but I disagree on Thagrosh not being able to take on another Athanc.
When consuming Pyromalfic, there was no preparation made, just gulping down the athanc. Thag had to go through combat and a long retreat with no food, water or contact with the Legion for weeks with only two warlocks and one beast to assist him. This was the first time Everblight ate an athanc, too.
Next time an athanc is ready to be eaten, Legion will be ready with every warlock and other magic talent available, Thag will prepare himself through weeks of meditation, Athanc will be subject to some ritual magic that may weaken it further, Typhon will be there to assist (see his affinity), etc etc. Both Thag and Everblight have a lot of experience manipulating athancs now, see creation of Kallus, who is primarily Thags creation. Kallus and his @heir of the Throne@ designation may prove an inkling he would play a special part in the next athanc consumption too, maybe taking on a part of the burden?
Besides, BE Thag3 is something that needs to happen.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 13, 2017 9:33:38 GMT
Besides, BE Thag3 is something that needs to happen. BE warlocks are not all their cracked up to be. You pretty much defencive tech instantly, and you would never be able to simply go to town with his melee prowess. I want to like OW 2 for instance, possibly the sexiest battle engine caster, but without an arcnode shes already flabby
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 13, 2017 9:58:13 GMT
I would say that Kallus could be the New host of the anthac. Wasn't he literally made to be perfect?
Besides, he looks a bit like cell from dbz. Perfect being and all that.
Everblight should be able to make a host powerful enough to hold a couple of dragons.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on Jul 13, 2017 10:38:33 GMT
Everblight should be able to make a host powerful enough to hold a couple of dragons. You underestimate how powerful dragons are Dragons wherent really statted in the iron kingdoms rpg, but in the older version, they BEGAN at around cr 22, with many reaching into the cr 30s For comparison warcasters hover around the cr 14-18 point. And that was before they began eating others, and toruk was left unstatted.
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Post by welshhoppo on Jul 13, 2017 10:57:14 GMT
Well if you can force 2 in an ogrun and it hasn't killed him you could probably fit another one or 2 in a specially made vessel.
I don't know, I'm not an expert on Dragon lore. And the seacat signal doesn't work any more these days.
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Post by drakkenblut on Jul 13, 2017 12:21:55 GMT
Oh, another issue, inner dragon politics.
Namely the final books of MK2 revealed just how loose the Dragon Alliance is. Charsaug just about gave the finger to Blighterghast because he was weirded out from his conflict with Archangels. Dragons do not agree on anything except the need to confront Toruk together. Even that is an issue, as we can see in the dialogue between Ashepnos and Charsaug.
After all of this, all of Dragon alliance may simply refuse to act against Everblight, in the battles of the Great hunt every one of them saw something deeply unsettling in Legion, as Everblights creations are an anathema to dragons.
In general:
- Blighterghast became exponentially more powerful, other dragons will resent that, perhaps construing a conspiracy theory that put all of them in harms way just so he could eat that athanc. - All of them will note that this conflict with Toruk would have been avoided if they did not act against Everblight - All of them are gravely injured, they are not haapy about it and will be loath to risk further injury - Some of them went through an especially traumatic experience or grave loss: Umbargoven could not absorb Kallus, he will be freaked out by it. Ashepnos lost his love-hate sibling and is now the losing side in the war against the Giants, and for what? - Lets not forget they feel defiled by participating in Kruegers plan, and rightly so. Some of them if given the option to attack Legion or Kruegers forces may choose Krueger.
All in all, the Alliance may well dissolve, and not assemble or assemble in smaller numbers if called to do anything except go against Toruk (and even so, questionable). When coming to these conclusions, bear in mind the dragon ego, paranoia and unwillingness to act.
I can see a lot of weird outcomes from this disruption in relations between dragons. Everblight attacking Blighterghast, other dragons not reacting out of spite. Everblight attacking a far off dragon, Umbargoven or Ashepnos, and no one coming to help because the victim declared his disdain for the alliance, and the vigil against Toruk cannot be abandoned. Blighterghast forging an alliance with Everblight, allowing him to eat other dragons (and his own partaking into it) because he decided the old alliance is forfeit and this is the only way to keep Toruk from having it all.
This could really branch into some very unexpected outcomes. I felt let down by the end in Wrath of the Dragonfather, but the more I think about it the more I like it.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jul 13, 2017 17:06:31 GMT
I don't think eating another dragon will be in the near future for Everblight, simply because we don't know what will happen when he does. It's been stated that Thagrosh's body is at the limit of the amount of power it can contain. So if another dragon is consumed, Thagrosh will likely die and Everblight will have to find a new form, maybe even go full dragon, but that would mean he has a harder time to hide and he will need time for his body to grow. Who says Thags would eat the athanc? Vayl has been rising through the ranks and has been instrumental in establishing the Legion. It's not out of the question for the athanc to be given to her and have her dragon out. And who know what would happen if you fed Kallus an athanc. It might not be any time soon, but Kallus3 is a potential wild card.
P.S. Are the Twins part of the psychic hive mind of Everblight or did they burn that bridge when Saeryn shut out their minds?
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Post by drakkenblut on Jul 13, 2017 18:26:16 GMT
I don't think eating another dragon will be in the near future for Everblight, simply because we don't know what will happen when he does. It's been stated that Thagrosh's body is at the limit of the amount of power it can contain. So if another dragon is consumed, Thagrosh will likely die and Everblight will have to find a new form, maybe even go full dragon, but that would mean he has a harder time to hide and he will need time for his body to grow. Who says Thags would eat the athanc? Vayl has been rising through the ranks and has been instrumental in establishing the Legion. It's not out of the question for the athanc to be given to her and have her dragon out. And who know what would happen if you fed Kallus an athanc. It might not be any time soon, but Kallus3 is a potential wild card.
P.S. Are the Twins part of the psychic hive mind of Everblight or did they burn that bridge when Saeryn shut out their minds?
Also, where exactly is it stated he cannot take any more? On the P.S. Saeryn can shut down the connection actively, but it will come back if she relaxes her control.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jul 13, 2017 19:00:16 GMT
Also, where exactly is it stated he cannot take any more? On the P.S. Saeryn can shut down the connection actively, but it will come back if she relaxes her control. It doesn't explicitly state that Thagrosh is at his limit, but his profile in the command and Mk2 forces books say, "Some part of him understand his mortal flesh will ultimately fail to contain the might of dragons...Doubts about his future creep into the corners of him mind..."
So it can be inferred that Thagrosh has to lay off those athancs unless he wants to bring about the second coming of Everblight. Also, are the capabilities of Saeryn's connection detailed in the Wrath or some other source? Would Everblight force the two back to surrender their athanc shards if she releases control?
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Post by Aegis on Jul 14, 2017 0:40:30 GMT
Saeryn was able to keep a part of her mind secret to everblight since her transformation, but never used it actively to defy his orders (just to keep some secrets for herself), because at the moment she used it, Everblight would have know.
That part was in legion books since the beginning.
In WoDF it is detailed a little more, and its explained that recently she gained the ability to also shield her sister mind (it happened when Thag eaten Pyromalfic, and most legion Warlocks got the epic version, that improved their personal powers).
What exactly would happen if Saeryn gives up the "barrier" is unknown. In the end of WoDF Lylith was in LOS of Sayerin and her sister, but apparently let them go without trying to kill them.
In the MK3 book (quoted on the first page), its said that now the sisters are at the borders of Legion. They still work for Everblight, but indipendently from him, with just the beasts that they spawn and some loyal Nyss with them.
Apparently, Everblight is quite pissed off with them, but probably doesn't want to kill them. Likely, he knows that what they did was the right thing for him, but being a dragon with a dragon ego, to being defied by his own inferior servitors pisses him off a lot, and he likely doesn't want to look weak in front of his other warlocks, letting a direct insubordination go unpunished (despite the insubordination being in his own interests) and risking other warlocks starting to try to do what they want, so he is likely unsure on what to do with them, and they know it so they continue to serve him from distance hoping to do something worth enough to get his pardon before letting the connection restart.
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Post by drakkenblut on Jul 14, 2017 11:53:32 GMT
MK2 forces book deals with the moment Thag devoured that second athanc, since then a year has passed in the Caen world. Thagrosh mastery over the athanc grew, see creation of Kallus. Having an athanc is not a game of being passive, it does have some input from the athanc bearer himself. Also, "ultimately" may mean down the line or if too many athanc are consumed, not "I die with the next one".
It is fair to say he will be able to contain one more athanc. He has experience, his body is stronger and he will not run blindly into it this time.
This thread deals too much with details, to little with the general idea. Ideas, people!
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 14, 2017 18:23:08 GMT
And now you have Dragogrun Heavy Cav.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 15, 2017 3:14:34 GMT
I like the idea of Everblight and Blighterghast having an alliance to capture anthancs. Maybe they start with the chimera with the agreement to split it. That way, maybe it won't be strong enough to drive them insane?
I am admittedly not that up to date on draconic relations. Are there any particular wmh books I should look at for stories about them?
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 15, 2017 6:24:59 GMT
Now that I think about it, what would happen if someone other than Thagrosh merged with the athanc and left the rest in Thagrosh? Everblight is unique in that he can split his essence and keep them all the same entity, would that also work in this way or would the small sliver in the other warlocks not be enough to overcome a bigger shard? Even if they could get the upper hand, would that make Everblight as a whole stronger or only this individual warlock?
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Post by drakkenblut on Jul 16, 2017 10:43:13 GMT
I am admittedly not that up to date on draconic relations. Are there any particular wmh books I should look at for stories about them? Exigence from MK2 describes interdragon relations. Krueger gets into dialogue with Blighterghast, Charsaug and Ashepnos. Metamorphosis from MK1 and Gargantuans from MK2 - Krueger talks to Blighterghast, you can sense dragon ego and how elevated do they feel above mere mortals. Both Monsternomicons - general info on known dragons. On someone other than Thagrosh eating an athanc: Possible, but only just. Warlocks should pierce themselves with an athanc to start the process, (if they extract their athanc shard they lose contact with it, exceptions for Typhon and Kallus as they are their shard) and there is the question of whether they are strong enough to consume it or will the larger athanc consume them. Saeryn has some musings on that in Wrath of the Dragonfather. Bear in mind that athanc size is not the only thing that determines the winner, otherwise Everblight would have not been succesful in eating Pyromalfic; The general guile of dragons in question are a great influence and the disembodied athanc is at a disadvantage. I suspect other factors can be found that will put the victim athanc to sleep or induce agony in it, anything that would weaken it for the predator athanc. Maybe freeze it or jab it with a weapon with antidragon properties (Rapture or Wyrmbane come to mind). Also, victim Athanc can be broken in pieces and consumed one at a time, but that would be counterproductive, as a broken Athanc loses knowledge the whole had, and when consuming an athanc, dragons want the power and the knowledge within. Should a warlock other than Thagrosh sucessfully assimilate an Athanc, I assume her power will grow, her body will distort and in time the increased power will spread to all other Everblight shards.
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