Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Jul 14, 2017 13:37:13 GMT
As much as I love the forgeguard models, love them, I just haven't had any success getting them to work. I'm either way to aggressive with them or they're kept back and just useless. Any insights in how you're using and abusing them? With the crawler change, I'm tempted to just walk them behind the crawler now, we shall see. I do plan on running some with Gorten this weekend. Overall, the jacks and artillery (and forgeguard for others, because I suck) are all pretty quality. Not over the top, but solid and get the job done. The rest of the options are pretty meh. And by meh, I mean I rarely see them on the table, if at all. I hope with the reevaluation of themes, Hammer Strike gets a few more options (Ogrun models and/or other models, maybe gobbers for some Reinholdt and Tinker goodness), or some of the other 'rarely'-used models get brought up in usefulness (I'd love to be able to use Highshields) To start, the best thing about Reinholdt, in my mind, was stealth removal. Sure he had versatility but stealth removal on "because I said so" is just amazing. Now that the siege crawler has it, I don't see me playing Reinholdt with Ossrum or Ashlynn ever again (those are the only casters I play Forgeguard with). Now to the Forgeguard themselves. With Ashlynn (Quicken) they move like actually models, as opposed to barrels with dachshund legs. This makes them a great infantry choice and with "The most interesting piper in the iron kingdoms" handing out tough, pathfinder, or concealment, they become a real force to be reckoned with. Within Rhulic however, we lose easy access to tough and there is no speed boost, so delivering them becomes a problem. That's where Ossrum comes in, as Durgen wants to light more stuff on fire and Gorten doesn't really have a good answer (I tried it for a long time and the best I could manage was screening them with a high def unit like Nyss Hunters and keeping Gorten's solid ground up, but that's a lot of points for not a ton of payoff). Ossrum doesn't want to run an Earthbreaker, he doesn't run a Driller as well as Gorten, and Bashers are less vital if you have forge guard running around. This leaves the shooty jacks. I err on the side of more bunnies, as they are arguably the best screen in the game, being both deadly and resilient (for the cost). They are also plentiful, creating a great first line, and Ossrum lets us run right through them. This allows you to play them much further up (in lieu of a speed buff) and the Siege Crawler allows you to return d3 models every turn (a better tough in most situations). My list is: Ossrum 1 Driller (cuz thor and sometimes you need to 1 round basically anything) 2 blasters (we want lanes clear of all chaff) 6 gunners (screening shield and seriously self sufficient shooter; alliteration, wee!) Siege Crawler (backs up the blasters, hunts solos, removes stealth, returns d3 dwarfs, adds to bulldoze shenanigans; what more could you want?) Thor (I had 4 points and he makes the driller a bigger threat) Tactical Arcanist Corps (sole source of magical damage, more dwarfs for recursion, and can get serious work done in the late game) Forge Guard (max) (One unit is sufficient. You want to prioritize a big target or two and make it dead. They are your second line, your counter punch) 2 Horgenhold Artillery Corps (These are busted and free in the theme. Literally no reason not to take them).
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Jul 14, 2017 18:37:00 GMT
Engage the bunnies with 2in reach weapons. Still can't disengage you without taking a freestrike. I do like this list and have been looking for more forge guard Looking at your report, I don't think your army is equipped to handle this list. You can still one round a crawler with a 3 focus stormclad which happened last night to me. But your only real beatstick is Rowdy. Maybe drop a unit of infantry and bolster your armor cracking by adding a jack or two. The reason that army on Ossrum works so well is that after you engage the bunny line with... well, with anything, the unit of forge guard immediately behind can charge or attack through the gun bunnies and wreck anything an opponent puts there, freeing the bunnies up to shoot, then the other unit of forge guard back there charges through everything else and cleans up. It's insane.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 14, 2017 19:08:09 GMT
Forge Guard have merit. But their threat is really low. Ossrum and Grundback can help with that during feat turn. But otherwise they are slow.
I pretty much always find my jacks screening for my infantry. Which is weird. It works though. If you can deliver a handful of forge guard, they'll get plenty of work done.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jul 15, 2017 5:50:31 GMT
heh. never listen to dorf players like st. jason whatever u do. "gorten's not very good, but i only like dorfs so he's good. and don't talk bad about my dorfs!"
~ ps: gorten is pretty bad
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 15, 2017 13:10:15 GMT
I miss being able to throw Gorten. Those were good days.
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Post by crow on Jul 16, 2017 21:36:55 GMT
Love Gorten the Model, Love his feat, love most his spells even... don't like the 4 speed, 5 focus, and the low amount of support he gives his army when he's part of an army that really relies on it's casters to buff it's power.
Durgen has redline (helps the slow dwarf jacks and adds some dmg), primed can be used as a way to make hard hitting dwarfs hit harder (granted the downsides of the spell mean this is ho-hum synergy but still), and of course giving all range jacks continuous fire is pretty sweet (and dwarfs have some decent ranged options for this), oh and gunfighter from feat can help gun bunnies that find themselves engaged.
Ossrum has Feat (fixes all dwarf problems pretty much), Fire for effect (Artillery loves it), Bulldoze spell (gun bunny fun!), snipe (dwarf shooting gets longer which is awesome), Energizer (fixes dwarf jack speed issue), Tactician (not a mandatory ability but man does it help a TON!).
Gorten plus 4 strength (hard hitting jack hits harder)... and maybe the wall? but to be honest with no speed buff for himself even you'll probably have a hard time getting to a point where this will be useful (plus lack of focus). His feat is AWESOME... if he can get in position which again... super slow and low control range...
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Jul 17, 2017 0:25:55 GMT
Gorten is my favorite too. Every time I try to use him in theme though I get frustrated :/ Ossrum just does it all better. I miss throwing Gorten with Lug or my Driller as well. Hopefully the CID for existing models goes well for the Rhul-folk
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 17, 2017 0:40:53 GMT
Gorten was an interesting experiment. How much does a warcaster need in order to compensate for 5 focus? Turns out, it's alot. He has a super powerful feat, great spells, solid personal melee and ranged, and 31 wjp.
Sadly, it just isn't enough. A 10" control area is just crippling to him.
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Jul 17, 2017 1:06:41 GMT
Do you think that's a problem with Gorten or a problem with the models (aka theme now that those are what the game is "balanced" around) that are supposed to be used with him?
It's looking like for mercs that each caster only gets one theme (MacBain getting 2 because he's man's man?), so you have to pray that they are usable with the rest of the models
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 17, 2017 1:16:26 GMT
Do you think that's a problem with Gorten or a problem with the models (aka theme now that those are what the game is "balanced" around) that are supposed to be used with him? It's looking like for mercs that each caster only gets one theme (MacBain getting 2 because he's man's man?), so you have to pray that they are usable with the rest of the models I don't think Gorten particularly likes Rhulic units. He doesn't speed up any of his stuff, but he has to be really close to the enemy line to get any mileage out of his feat. He wasn't doing great before themes. Now that he's restricted to one theme, it isn't doing him any favors.
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Jul 17, 2017 2:09:25 GMT
He isn't restricted per say, I should have said available to. Just a trend I'm noticing
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Jul 17, 2017 13:24:52 GMT
I never run Gorten in theme and I can't think of anything that would convince me to run Ossrum out of theme. To your point, theme's are very present right now, but not restrictive necessarily.
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