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Post by themusicalcake on Jul 10, 2017 11:36:30 GMT
Exactly what it says; I've got a friend in love with dwarves who wants to get into Warmachine, I advised her to get some lists down before she started spending big bux™ on models.
What is a good list, 75 points, running in Rhul? I know that Ossrum is good, but who's another good Rhulic caster?
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 10, 2017 12:55:24 GMT
There are 3 Rhulic casters.
Ossrum is probably the strongest of them. He's also the best Rhulic caster for pure rhulic forces. His feat only affects Rhulic models, and his spell list is kinda battlegroup centric. He doesn't have to only run Rhulic, though. He can run pEiryss and give her snipe. That's fun.
Madhammer likes running some Rhulic stuff, but he also wants a unit to put Primed on. He doesn't speed up Forge Guard, so they're not a great option.
Grundback is even more agnostic about what he wants to bring. He has a whole lot of strong abilities balanced by having 5 focus.
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Post by crow on Jul 10, 2017 13:15:40 GMT
Good Dwarf Stuffs that you'll use: -Ossrum -Gun bunnies (blasters and Gunners) -Drillers -Thor -Forge Guard -Artillery Core -Siege Crawler
Things that have a specific place in certain lists (may be worth getting) -Avalancher (a little pricey since it's melee is a little lack luster, but not a bad option in some lists) -Tactical Arcanist Core (in theme and only really with the Siege crawler) -Herne and Johnne (artillerist in nice in some cases but not always needed and so they can be a little pricey for what they do) -Bokur (just a little pricey, but still not bad) -Madhammer (has some dwarven synergy but not a ton. Not a bad caster) -Earth Breaker (I'm convinced you can still find a place for it in VERY specific lists, but it is definitely more of a niche piece then it's mark 2 auto include)
Stuff you will probably never use: -Ogrun Assault Core (one good turn with Madhammer on feat turn, but other than that, they're kinda lack luster for their points.) -High shields + UA (have had problems since mark 2 and no sign of relief in mark 3 I'm afraid. To slow, low range, and with all the infantry hate out there, they just die before they get used) -Gorten (this is more just me. I love the model but I find the five focus is just to hard to get what you want done, and not that he's not the battlebox caster I've never been able to justify putting him on the table...) - Wroughthammer Rock Ram (again I have one, I don't think I've ever really used it. I'm sure it has a place and I'll get called out for it, but I've never found reason to have one on the table).
Most of this is opinions and I'm sure some people will greatly argue my list but something to think about.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 10, 2017 13:58:11 GMT
Good Dwarf Stuffs that you'll use: -Ossrum -Gun bunnies (blasters and Gunners) -Drillers -Thor -Forge Guard -Artillery Core -Siege Crawler Things that have a specific place in certain lists (may be worth getting) -Avalancher (a little pricey since it's melee is a little lack luster, but not a bad option in some lists) -Tactical Arcanist Core (in theme and only really with the Siege crawler) -Herne and Johnne (artillerist in nice in some cases but not always needed and so they can be a little pricey for what they do) -Bokur (just a little pricey, but still not bad) -Madhammer (has some dwarven synergy but not a ton. Not a bad caster) -Earth Breaker (I'm convinced you can still find a place for it in VERY specific lists, but it is definitely more of a niche piece then it's mark 2 auto include) Stuff you will probably never use: -Ogrun Assault Core (one good turn with Madhammer on feat turn, but other than that, they're kinda lack luster for their points.) -High shields + UA (have had problems since mark 2 and no sign of relief in mark 3 I'm afraid. To slow, low range, and with all the infantry hate out there, they just die before they get used) -Gorten (this is more just me. I love the model but I find the five focus is just to hard to get what you want done, and not that he's not the battlebox caster I've never been able to justify putting him on the table...) - Wroughthammer Rock Ram (again I have one, I don't think I've ever really used it. I'm sure it has a place and I'll get called out for it, but I've never found reason to have one on the table). Most of this is opinions and I'm sure some people will greatly argue my list but something to think about. Excuse me, sir. You have clearly forgotten the best heavy jack in the faction. The Basher is the bestest jack ever. He threats 13.5" on Ossrum's feat turn. I own two of them, and am tempted to get a third.
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Post by themusicalcake on Jul 10, 2017 14:20:58 GMT
Update: she very much enjoys the colossal. Can Ossrun run the colossal? What is a good list running said 'jack?
Also, running pure Rhulic, what would you pair with your Ossrun list?
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jul 10, 2017 15:21:09 GMT
Update: she very much enjoys the colossal. Can Ossrun run the colossal? What is a good list running said 'jack? Also, running pure Rhulic, what would you pair with your Ossrun list? Ossrum could probably get some mileage out of the Earthbreaker. Snipe is a good spell for it, and his feat turn will help it get a good charge, and make it high enough arm to survive. I'd also say Madhammer would be a good pick to run the colossal. Redline can be a solid buff on it. Bring Thor if you do, he can try to repair it. There are only 3 casters, so I'd recommed trying each of them out. Here's some sample lists: Hammer Strike Theme Ossrum 28* -Driller 10 -Basher 9 -Gunner 6 -Gunner 6 -Blaster 6 Forgeguard 16 Forgeguard 16 Forgeguard 16 Siege Crawler 18 Artillary Crew 0 Artillary Crew 0 Ogrun Bokur 0 Durgen 29* -Earthbreaker 38 -Gunner 6 -Gunner 6 -Gunner 6 -Blaster 6 -Blaster 6 -Blaster 6 -Blaster 6 Forgeguard 16 Artillary 0 Artillary 6
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Post by crow on Jul 10, 2017 17:48:56 GMT
Excuse me, sir. You have clearly forgotten the best heavy jack in the faction. The Basher is the bestest jack ever. He threats 13.5" on Ossrum's feat turn. I own two of them, and am tempted to get a third. Ah, how could I forget and you are correct! I have a basher and though I usually spring for a driller, a Basher is also a decent choice and certainly not one to turn one's nose up at. Also I actually find Durgen is a little better with the Earth breaker then Ossrum, and it might even be more worth it to bring it with Durgen because it is a dwarf thing he has synergy with, and Ossrum can build without it easily. That way you're not giving an opponent the "bring anti colossal tech and you'll beat my two list pairing" option.
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Post by luvdiscgolf on Jul 13, 2017 12:29:48 GMT
From personal experience playing Rhulic armies since the first models were released, I will say that Gorten's feat has won a ridiculous amount of games for me over the years, NEVER underestimate him because of his small stature, or his diminutive 5 focus stat. An army build around Gorten, a Driller and a few gunbunnies can lay down some damage for sure.
If you have any interest in playing Madhammer, a Rockram can be absolutely devastating with him, and I don't know why more people don't play it with him. First off, the gun will get the Field Marshal 'fire' continuous effect, second, cast Redline on the Rockram, then have Thor put Tune Up on him, then send the Rockram in with his Assault charge with a gun that can knockdown the target, light it on fire, follow up, then lay a beat down on it's charge target that is laying at its feet with a big hole in its chest from the shot. It can wreck things!
Lists vary considerably from person to person, and one gaming community to another, but I always have good things happen with Rhulic armies that contain these elements:
Gorten Grundback + a Driller or two and multiple gunbunnies Durgen Madhammer + a Rockram and multiple gunbunnies General Ossrum + an Avalancher (Fire for Effect spell)= controlled by Ossrum or jack marshaled by Thor, and multiple gunbunnies, and lots of Rhulic infantry that love to use his Tactician ability.
Purely Rhulic armies have always been able to 'work', but some matchups have always been tougher than others; my toughest matchups have traditionally been Cryx with all of their magicky tricks, debuffs, incorporeal models, etc. Try some stuff, and see what you like and what works, and there is nothing wrong with proxying some models to figure out what you want.
Good luck!
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Jul 13, 2017 13:34:41 GMT
Some great insight in this thread. Also, luvdiscgolf thank you for sharing some good starting points for each caster. I was using the rockram thor combo with Durgen last night into lightning brigade actually. It is devastating when you can pull it off. Any of the dwarf casters are good. Though it's a bit harder to make pure rhulic work outside of Ossrum (he just Rhuls harder). I, myself am a huge fan of Gorten, and have seen success in the approach of 2 drillers and gun bunnies. Or a lot of heavy ranged jacks on the table and going for piece trades/attrition (no knockdown on enemies makes me cry). I would say a good investment would be 3-4 gunners (2 come in one box/sprue, so that's easy), and 1-2 drillers. There's been a lot of success with Ossrum running 2 drillers, and it seems every dwarf list I make has 2 of them. From there 1-2 artillery seems to be a staple nowadays.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Jul 13, 2017 13:46:29 GMT
This thread seems to showcase exactly how I feel about Rhulic, in that it is mostly good all the way around with good casters with strong identities and solid yet not particularly exciting jacks, and a couple of units with essentially no business on the table.
Basically, it's balanced like Ret, but tuned down a tick.
That being said, not a lot of talk about forge guard! They kill stuff dead real fast once they get up there, and the siege crawler makes them blast immune and can bring d3 back to life every turn. Ossrum runs them great and Gorten can give them some janky threat extension by pulling things 8" closer to them.
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Jul 13, 2017 15:13:13 GMT
As much as I love the forgeguard models, love them, I just haven't had any success getting them to work. I'm either way to aggressive with them or they're kept back and just useless. Any insights in how you're using and abusing them? With the crawler change, I'm tempted to just walk them behind the crawler now, we shall see. I do plan on running some with Gorten this weekend.
Overall, the jacks and artillery (and forgeguard for others, because I suck) are all pretty quality. Not over the top, but solid and get the job done. The rest of the options are pretty meh. And by meh, I mean I rarely see them on the table, if at all.
I hope with the reevaluation of themes, Hammer Strike gets a few more options (Ogrun models and/or other models, maybe gobbers for some Reinholdt and Tinker goodness), or some of the other 'rarely'-used models get brought up in usefulness (I'd love to be able to use Highshields)
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jul 13, 2017 18:36:11 GMT
ugh... tell your friend there are two great lists that are super competitive and really nasty.
ossrum 2 drillers 6 gunners 1 blaster 10 hammer dorfs cloud dorfs crawler 2 free artillery
or if u prefer
ossrum 3 drillers 1 basher 4 gunners crawler hammer dwarves 2 artillery (1 is free) bokur
everything else is less good. if she likes other stuff, fine, but it will be less good.
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Jul 13, 2017 20:51:30 GMT
This Ossrum list completely destroyed me a few weeks ago. Looking back, I still don't see what I could have done differently to come out on top. With ARM21 bunnies screening the forge guard, who can charge THROUGH the bunnies, it feels unstoppable. General Ossrum Hammerfall Siege Crawler Grundback Gunner Grundback Gunner Grundback Gunner Grundback Gunner Grundback Blaster Grundback Blaster Grundback Blaster Ogrun Bokur Horgenhold Artillery Corps Horgenhold Artillery Corps Horgenhold Forge Guard (max) Horgenhold Forge Guard (max) Horgenhold Forge Guard (min) casualty-wmh.blogspot.com/2017/06/battle-report-mercenaries-ossrum-vs.html
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Jul 13, 2017 21:18:52 GMT
Engage the bunnies with 2in reach weapons. Still can't disengage you without taking a freestrike. I do like this list and have been looking for more forge guard Looking at your report, I don't think your army is equipped to handle this list. You can still one round a crawler with a 3 focus stormclad which happened last night to me. But your only real beatstick is Rowdy. Maybe drop a unit of infantry and bolster your armor cracking by adding a jack or two.
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Post by StJason on Jul 14, 2017 2:53:04 GMT
Q: Can Ossrum run a Earthbreaker? A: Yes! Though the new Crawlers arguably take it's place, it's still a nice huge base which with Ossrum, other units (like Forge Guard) can charge right through.
Q: What's the best way to run a Basher? A: Thor! Tune-up + Crush = POW 17+3d6 slam MAT, follow up and POW 17+3d6 hit, then throw a POW 12 Flak Field. Not too shabby, eh?
Q: How do I tell good information from bad? A: If someone says "dorf", that's pretty much a red flag right there.
Q: How do you run Gorton? A: That's tough, as he doesn't synergize too well with other dwarves. That's fine, though as he is pretty self-contained. He hits hard, and is really tough to hurt. Not everyone likes him, but I've ran him since he was the only Rhulic caster, and he'll always have a special place in my heart. So, run him like a super-solo with a army to shield him. Boosted Both Barrels is nasty, and SoG turns him into a melee powerhouse. (Also, really good on melee jacks. Also the Earthbreaker.. but only if you like tossing heavy 'jacks 12"...)
Q: Is the Siege Crawler the best thing in Hammer Strike now? A: Pretty darn close! Stealth removal, filling up squads, obscene amounts of armor and boxes... They certainly went from near the bottom to top-shelf choice!
Q: Is the Bunny Ranch still viable? A: It's good, but will struggle with heavier armor. That's why people like to toss a driller or two in as well. But the idea of running 17 bunnies in a single list just makes my cold, black heart shiver with glee. Especially if some of the suggested bunny types that I've suggested to PP ever see the light of day. (hey, they took my idea for the Crawler...)
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