Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Jul 16, 2017 12:59:29 GMT
@goldenaegis Honestly, when playing the double VoJ, going for scenario was never an intention. It's a slow list meant for attrition, and scenario is the biggest weakness. That said, zones and flags tend to be within 10" of each other, so you can certainly have a vessel in each zone and still healing each other. I think the double VOJ list is slow, and I agree with you there. It simply won't be keeping up with ANYTHING in the army that wants to charge. I'd liken it to playing a game with a set of icebergs. My personal opinion is that doubling down on the VOJ simply doesn't bring enough hitting power in the list. Just my opinion. A single VOJ list (i.e. the one I'm using) is much more reactive, especially with Crusader's Call and ridiculously fast units/solos like Daughters and Nicia.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 16, 2017 13:59:04 GMT
Have you tried it yet? Between the Reckoner and both VoJ, your getting 1 P+S16 shot, and 4 P+S15 shots, all of which can be boosted. It won't take down a colossal, but average dice does 26 damage to a Khador jack, 21 damage to a Templar (unless you luck out and nail the shield early), and 36 damage to a Cygnar jack (assuming all hit, which isn't unreasonable if you boost the reckoner, get Flare, and then still boost the VoJ if needed). The few games I've tried, was able to consistently drop a heavy with shooting, get engaged (stupid 12" range grumble-grumble), then clear the engaging model with Knights Exemplar.
In summary, I think Harby+doubleVoJ+doubleKE has plenty of hitting power (outside of facing colossals, probably). Its weakness is the speed. You will be fighting an attrition game, and you will have to fight your way into the zones, which isn't always comfortable.
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Fire Step
Junior Strategist
Everyday I'm Wrastlin'
Posts: 334
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Post by Fire Step on Jul 16, 2017 14:56:29 GMT
No I haven't tried the double yet. I'm not doubting its potential for success, don't get me wrong. I just prefer a little more speed in the lists. I generally find that the less reactive your army is, the more likely it is your opponent will get the drop on you. I think now is as good a time as ever to write up my second match with Harbinger. Victory once again! To reiterate the list in testing; War Room Army Protectorate of Menoth - Harbinger test list 2 Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army The Harbinger of Menoth - WJ: +24 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Guardian - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 15) - Vigilant - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9) Vessel of Judgment - PC: 18 Allegiant of the Order of the Fist - PC: 3 High Paladin Dartan Vilmon - PC: 6 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Paladin of the Order of the Wall - PC: 4 Nicia, Tear of Vengeance - PC: 5 Pyrrhus, Flameguard Hero - PC: 5 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10 Knights Exemplar - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Knights Exemplar Officer - PC: 5 --- GENERATED : 07/16/2017 15:11:16 BUILD ID : 2040.17-05-19 I was facing Legion, Abby2, with five beasts. Not the most favourable match-up for me, or so I thought. Scenario: Breakdown, 2017 Notes on the list, match-up, and game: - I had swapped out the templar for the guardian. The thought process was that it was the same cost, gained an arc node, lost some arm, same speed, higher mat. I thought this was initially a great idea. It's not, the templar is going back into the list. The added arm means the templar is surviving longer, which makes better use of the low numbers of jacks.
- Grievous wounds (the spelling of grievous makes me feel like I'm going insane, anyone else?) shuts down this list. Horrifically. Specifically in this game it was Proteus. I read his card, I understood the specifics of what he could do, but I didn't really appreciate it in real terms. On his own he slaughtered Vilmon, a Paladin, Pyrrhus, and half the VOJ alongside one of his other scaly mates.
- Thankfully, you know what also kills Proteus about 65% of the time? Three Knights Exemplar charging under their mini-feat. The officer attachment basically cut him in half. She alone rolled 6,6,6,5,4. Dropping lowest, off five (battle-charged). 18 damage from one lowly model to that tentacle-git.
- VOJ still dies to a concentrated attack.
- The real workhorse in this game turned out to be a lonely paladin. Vengeance began to pay for itself towards the end of the game, especially when I was getting reluctant to trigger martyrdom. One paladin and one KE on their own were crippling heavies.
- Committing Harbinger to melee is actually a thing. I put her into a charge against a damaged carnivean and she finished him off. It's often difficult to keep in mind, but in a list with so many small models, but so many weapon masters, there is an amazing amount of work done a turn. What had begun the work on the carnivean was the allegiant of the fist and the paladin (vengeance!). I shouldn't be so afraid in committing this list into a heavy/arm skew.
- Placement continues to be important. I misplaced the vigilant when harby charged in so I didn't get cover which nearly killed her from a terrible spell assassination.
- Once his spell assassination failed it was all over for him. My opponent began the game with five heavies, blighted nyss sorcerous and helion, and various shepherds. By the end he had one heavy and the flying solo, and I was still holding onto the vigilant, a paladin, four knights exemplar and officer, both mechaniks (!) and of course Harbinger.
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