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Post by paradox on Jul 3, 2017 15:06:10 GMT
What about fitting in some devouts for some jacks that have high def and better arm? Reckoners with ashen veil can also help set up some Def bonuses for dervishes too (at least in melee). I think there's a risk in diluting the spam. I mean, it can work, sure. My goal here was Durst spamming dervishes. I conceded for a vigilant and 2 crusaders for protection and punch. But genrally, my goal here was bodies and wounds over ARM. Adding more expensive jacks lowers that value.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 3, 2017 16:50:13 GMT
I'm not one of those people that is omniscient enough to know how good a model is before putting it on the table. I'm experimenting with Indictors - especially paired Indictors because: * arm21 is good * mat 7 is good (open fire works on melee attacks...) * being untargetable by BOTH spells and non-magical ranged attacks is good * denying animi/spell channeling anywhere in the same postal code as my warcaster is good This list was an accidental discovery as part of those experiments, and it's working for me. Yes, but there is no synergy or interaction with Malakus at all. That means it really doesn't even make sense to consider Indictors. Indictors sort of make sense with Durst or Amon where they like melee or high arm jacks(though they're still suboptimal use of points there). Malakus wants fire guns.
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Post by chillychinaman on Jul 3, 2017 17:03:54 GMT
I know that Malekus' feat incentivizes maximizing his feat, but has anyone considered playing him for melee or maybe combined arms? It wouldn't be the first time a caster ignores their feat. While this isn't ideal, and certainly knocks him down even lower in the tier ranks.
The way I'm picturing it is, A pair of reckoners shoot under his feat Turn 2~3, each banging up a heavy, or together killing one. The following turn, assuming you setup for it, you can cycle ignite between the two of them to kill a target that was softened up by the rest of your army during your feat turn.
Without a widespread access to an accuracy fix, I don't think it's the best idea to bank on his feat turn. It might just be my bad dice, but too often the feat doesn't provide enough of an attrition shift.
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 3, 2017 18:01:41 GMT
But without his feat he doesn't bring much besides excessively expensive knockdown on a stick and an out of activation attack for a jack, also way too expensive.
He isn't mk2 vindictus where his feat isn't important. He basically only lives for that feat turn. That's why he has problems. His feat doesn't make up for his other shortcomings.
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Post by flamigant on Jul 3, 2017 18:43:16 GMT
Malekus his feat would be 10 times better if the friendly models where just in his control range for the additional die and not the enemy models. I have no idea how PP works when designing new models...
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 3, 2017 19:11:02 GMT
Its mostly protectorate where this failure happens. Other new stuff that comes out doesn't have these design problems.
They just don't have anybody who understands the faction. They just have no creativity when it comes to our faction, so they end up making these flat and boring designs.
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Post by Manathern on Jul 3, 2017 20:38:56 GMT
Could Malekus benefit from the Avatar? That could help him put focus on something else and give some melee punch that doesn't need much help from him. What about a Repenter spam under Might of the Creator? That could be fun at least...
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Malekus
Jul 4, 2017 0:49:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by k0rhil on Jul 4, 2017 0:49:14 GMT
I find his feat and his play style to be the opposite of kreoss 1. With kreoss I look for the assasination and use it for attrition if my opponent is playing coy. With malekus I keep searching for angles to maximize fire damage and boosted continuous fire rolls the next round but if the battle lines form up and there's an angle to the caster his spray and immolation have won me matches. Whether being used to erase the caster or a key piece like behemoth or a stormwall a concentrated attack on feat turn will eliminate whatever you need taken off the table.I love some of the theories being thrown in about how to improve him and as mentioned earlier without an accuracy buff dice can get mighty cold but he can play and win with enough variety that I won't shelf him.
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Malekus
Jul 4, 2017 1:18:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by macdaddy on Jul 4, 2017 1:18:44 GMT
Could Malekus benefit from the Avatar? That could help him put focus on something else and give some melee punch that doesn't need much help from him. What about a Repenter spam under Might of the Creator? That could be fun at least... Rat 5 sprays and no decent accuracy buff combined with short range and no pathfinder makes me think it's not a good idea. However, taking a couple with him is certainly an option. He really is a 1 Turn wonder. Eye of truth helps alleviate some by being amazing every turn. But honestly Sevy 2 runs a much better gunline. He really needs to have open fire replaced or reduced and I agree with Grey Templar on him needing an accuracy buff as Rat 5 jacks is horrible and Flare has some skornergy with the Feat as you want to shoot a Boosted Reckoner shot To increase accuracy for open fire but malekus needs to Feat first to Give it the DPS and blah blah Blah. Give him guided fire and suddenly things get silly. Repenter Spam would be a thing as those auto Boosted Pow 14 sprays are gonna wreck things.....maybey that's why he doesn't have guided fire lol
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jul 4, 2017 1:36:01 GMT
Could Malekus benefit from the Avatar? That could help him put focus on something else and give some melee punch that doesn't need much help from him. What about a Repenter spam under Might of the Creator? That could be fun at least... Rat 5 sprays and no decent accuracy buff combined with short range and no pathfinder makes me think it's not a good idea. However, taking a couple with him is certainly an option. He really is a 1 Turn wonder. Eye of truth helps alleviate some by being amazing every turn. But honestly Sevy 2 runs a much better gunline. He really needs to have open fire replaced or reduced and I agree with Grey Templar on him needing an accuracy buff as Rat 5 jacks is horrible and Flare has some skornergy with the Feat as you want to shoot a Boosted Reckoner shot To increase accuracy for open fire but malekus needs to Feat first to Give it the DPS and blah blah Blah. Give him guided fire and suddenly things get silly. Repenter Spam would be a thing as those auto Boosted Pow 14 sprays are gonna wreck things.....maybey that's why he doesn't have guided fire lol Having seen it in play, Repenter spam with Malekus is actually quite good, and hilarious. I would personally make sure to take a Reckoner for Flare, and Eye of Truth because of everything Eye offers. Of top of my head, and without having tried (translation: Will proxy what I'm missing, and play it on Saturday, probably). Malekus - Creator's Wrath Hierophant Eye of Truth Reckoner x2 Repenter x5 Vassal of Menoth x2 Vassal Mechanik x2 min Choir x2 Wrack
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Malekus
Jul 4, 2017 1:40:05 GMT
via mobile
Post by macdaddy on Jul 4, 2017 1:40:05 GMT
Why not take Tristan with 2 repenters to help fuel them.
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Malekus
Jul 4, 2017 1:59:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by paradox on Jul 4, 2017 1:59:10 GMT
Dont own a Malekus yet, but I think he's waiting for a revelator. This is what I have racked up for when I get to him.
Malekus, the Burning Truth - WJ: +30 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Reckoner - PC: 16 - Revelator - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 30)
The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 4 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Idrian Skirmishers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide - Chieftain & Guide: 5 Deliverer Sunburst Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 5 Deliverer Sunburst Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 5 Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard - Rhoven, Gius & Cassian: 9
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 4, 2017 3:06:42 GMT
You don't necessarily need the revelator.
Try something like this:
Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points
(Malekus 1) Malekus, the Burning Truth [+30] - Dervish [7] - Eye of Truth [20] - Hand of Judgment [18] - Hierophant [3] Allegiant of the Order of the Fist [3] Vassal of Menoth [3] Vassal of Menoth [3] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5] Flameguard Cleansers (max) [15] - Flameguard Cleanser Officer [4] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5]
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Post by Manathern on Jul 4, 2017 3:44:43 GMT
Why not take Tristan with 2 repenters to help fuel them. Souds good! War Room Army Protectorate of Menoth - Malekus Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army Malekus, the Burning Truth - WJ: +30 - Eye of Truth - PC: 20 (Battlegroup Points Used: 20) - Hand of Judgment - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) Deliverer Arms Master - PC: 3 Initiate Tristan Durant - PC: 4 - Repenter - PC: 8 - Repenter - PC: 8 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3 Flameguard Cleansers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Flameguard Cleanser Officer - PC: 4 Deliverer Sunburst Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 5 Deliverer Sunburst Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 5 Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard - Rhoven, Gius & Cassian: 9 --- GENERATED : 07/03/2017 23:42:28 BUILD ID : 2044.17-06-23
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Post by Manathern on Jul 4, 2017 12:36:48 GMT
I'm looking att the list and wonder if the two Vassals of Menoth couldn't be replaced by 2 punch monks or Dartan (for another shield guard). I'm also thinking I could swap something to add either Cinerators (immune to fire. They could screen the Flameguards on the approach and be sprayed over without problem) or Temple Flame Guards (good inexpensive tarpit).
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