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Post by samuraijaques on Jun 30, 2017 22:58:12 GMT
EDIT: All those pictures were garbage so I learned how to take better ones! Hey guys, starting a thread to get some feedback on my Khador army. Some of these pictures have already been posted on my earlier thread about my Karchev conversion but I am putting them up here for the sake of having them all together. I apologize if it ends up being too many pictures. Also the lighting in my house is terrible so please excuse the poor quality of the pictures. I would love some critique and recommendations! Be brutal if you feel like it! Big B This guy took me soooooo long to finish. Most difficult model I have ever painted due to the amount of detail going on. Very happy with how he turned out though. Kozlov And my first model since getting back into painting Karchev Definitely not as good as my other ones. I might actually go back and touch him up with some of the new techniques that I have been using. Anyway, what do you guys think?
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Post by Aegis on Jul 2, 2017 0:44:56 GMT
I like Karchev, and also the weathering on the jacks. The black color scheme makes it difficult to appreciate details via photos, but they seem good works!
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 10, 2017 10:08:57 GMT
Dark colour schemes are probably hard to take good photos of. While I can tell that you've put a lot of attention in and used some pretty good painting techniques (edge highlighting, drybrushing glows, etc) your models look a little flat in the photos. I haven't painted too many models using a black colour scheme myself, but it's my general understanding that you don't want to paint actual black, you want to use greys. I think your models might have looked better if you went for a dark grey basecoat with lighter highlights (it might just be the photos, but I think all your highlights could have been brighter). This would allow you to use actual black for shading. Your glow effects don't quite seem to be working? I'm no expert on glows so I can't say why not, but again it might just be the photos. Perhaps try drybrushing more intermediate layers for the glow effects, rather than just drybrushing light blues an whites onto an adjacent surface. For example, you can see in this photo that I've actually drybrushed a dark blue onto the steel first, then a light blue, then edge-highlighted with the lightest blue: This is not a great example (like I said, I'm no expert), but maybe it will help. In this case I didn't go up to pure white because I wanted to use pure white for the "eyes", and generally I think you don't want to go as bright on the reflected lights as you do on the actual light source. Another trick I've seen is to actually darken a surface slightly before blending into a glow, or just around a glowing area. In the photo above the inside surface around the light source is quite dark, which helps the light to "pop", and the dark blue I used for blending into the light blue glow is arguably darker than the steel surface itself. For a far more exaggerated and less realistic (but easier to see) example, you can see how I blended the red of the Greylord's cape down to a dark purple before blending up to a light blue glow (actually going all the way up to pure white at the very source): I think this would have looked better if I had used a darker red for the material, as the material is just so bright that the glow doesn't stand out as much as it should (plus the "darkened" area is too exaggerated as a result), but I'm pretty sure it would look even worse if I hadn't blended through the darker purple. By the way, both these attempts at glows used only drybrushing to achieve the blends. Of course the photos are exaggerated by the black background and some fiddling with the image contrast; I do believe your models would look better with more flattering photography. Your basing might not be playing too nicely with the models either; black models won't look their best against black rocks. The white snow helps a lot, but I think that pure white snow can have the unfortunate side effect of making glows look less bright, since the white of the glow is competing against the white of the snow. I don't really know what to recommend for a more suitable basing scheme, but maybe you could experiment with something in the medium red/brown range? Dark brown or warm-grey cobblestones, rocks, or bricks maybe? I wonder if glowing red lava would look good - perhaps a red glow on the base and a blue glow on the models would work? I don't really know. Anyway, I hope I haven't been too negative. You have a cool colour scheme and hey! Unlike me you're actually getting painted models on the table! Last time I finished a model was back in April.
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Post by samuraijaques on Jul 16, 2017 2:31:11 GMT
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah the original photos were garbage so I replaced them all. I see what you mean by the color scheme being too dark but I am reluctant to go back and change it all at this point. Maybe I'll give it a shot on my next model. I am trying to balance having perfectly beautiful models with actually having time to play with them you know? In a lot of ways my current method is a compromise on the quality so that I can actually finish some of them. Here are a few more. Still not the greatest pictures but they are dramatically better than the last ones and probably as good as I am going to get without investing in better equipment. Greylord forgeseer (my fav!) Kodiak/Grolar (magnets ftw) And the juggernaut version of my magnetized kit because I haven't finished any of the other arms yet Iv'e been playing around with a lot more damage effects and I am very happy with the results so far. Better? Worse? Let me know.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 16, 2017 6:31:45 GMT
Much better! Those models are looking fantastic - I guess it really was just the fault of the photos before.
I definitely would not go back and change finished models, instead keep them so you can compare newer techniques and colour schemes to see what works and what doesn't, and over time to see how you are improving.
By the way, I'm really liking those dark blue armour plates.
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Post by samuraijaques on Jul 16, 2017 7:06:08 GMT
Oh thank god. I was worried I was actually just not that good. I feel like the photos were definitely a problem.
Thanks for the feedback man, samurai gotta stick together. Does the glow still look weird to you? And do you think I went too heavy with the wear effects?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 16, 2017 8:53:28 GMT
In my eyes, based on these photos, the glow effects on the Forge Seer and the heads and chests of the jacks look good, but some of the other don't quite work for me (the smokestacks, Juggernaut axe, and Grolar gun).
I dont' think the weathering is "too much" - how much weathering you apply is simply a matter of taste and to some extent narrative. I actually use a lot more weathering on some of my jacks, it kinda depends on the jack. I will say that some of the scratches aren't quite working for me; I think the problem is large individual scratches that start at the edge of a plate but that edge has no other weather. So for for example the scratches on the Kodiak's gauntlets look good because the that whole edge is worn, while the large scratches on the Juggernaut's left fist are coming off a clean edge so they look a bit out of place.
Also, you've paired the "exposed metal" of the scratches with a dark upper edge, but I actually think this is normally painted as being lighter than the underlying surface, to indicate that it's a raised edge (the peeling paint will be rising off the surface, sort of thing)? I've never actually done this myself and simply satisfied myself with a simple line of silver, but I think that's how I've read it's usually done.
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Post by samuraijaques on Jul 16, 2017 9:49:52 GMT
So the smokestack I don't know how to do better. I don't know how to make it look more like there is blue light coming out of them than that. I am noticing though that some of the pictures still are not accurately representing the glow coming off of the stax so it might just be that. The grolar gun I could make the glow a little bit more apparent and maybe that would help but it also looks a lot better from the side. Again, the pictures are sadly not all representative of the models. It's hard to give someone the same understanding looking at a static picture as they would holding the model in their hand. The juggernaut axe is actually just supposed to look like it's literally made out of ice. Also I totally half assed the juggernaut, not gonna lie.
The weathering advice is spot on I think. I have been thinking that it looked a little wrong but couldn't quite figure out why and that's totally it. I'll add some updated pics after I mess up the edges a little more to balance it out.
The thing that I am trying to represent with the scratches and specifically their darker upper edge is not a raised surface but a recessed one. It's a gash or a scratch like a bullet would cut through a metal plate. so the shadow would be along the upper edge. is that not translating correctly?
Thanks so much for the help man. Much respect for your personal work so it means a lot to me to get such constructive feedback from you.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 16, 2017 11:29:53 GMT
Thank you for the kind words. I'm not a very good painter, I just get lucky sometimes
I've never tried to make a smokestack glow - logically I'm not sure they would? Well, perhaps shading the steel to be darker, and putting a drop of brighter blue or even pure white in the center of each hole, would help the blue to "pop" more and look more like a glow? I don't really know. As far as the gun barrels go, I don't think you CAN make it glow when it's just a big hole - there's nothing to paint the light-source on. You would need to actually fill it in I think. Again though, I'm not sure that it should glow since it's not a laser beam, it's a chemically-propelled slugthrower (to borrow an expression).
On it's own the Juggernaut axe blade does look like ice, but because it's the same shades of blue and white as the glowing areas it ends up feeling "in context" like it was supposed to be glowing. The white that's drybrushed (I think?) onto the brass next to the blade might be interpreted on it's own as frost, or as a glow - and since there are other glowing areas in similar shades, again we end up interpreting it as a glow. Something you might try is to glaze the axe OR glowing areas in a slightly different shade to try and differentiate between the two effects, but to be honest I wouldn't go over the glowing areas, and I'm not sure how to say "ice" better than the icy blue you're already using, so I don't know if it's worth trying to fix at this point. You could add a touch of green I suppose, if you're in the mood to experiment. I would get rid of the white on the brass at least; that should help.
The "heat shield" (I guess?) on the axe though, is that supposed to be glowing or ice? I can't quite tell, and to be honest I'm not sure either "makes sense", in my head at least.
I don't know about gashes with recessed edges, that sound complicated. I suggest looking at source material rather than just trying to make it up. My guess is that you will want to use a dark metallic to signify the gash itself (since this is painted metal, if on an unpainted surface then just a line of the shade colour), then a bright "highlight" UNDER the gash to signify light hitting the lower lip of the gash. Well, that's just an uneducated guess though.
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Post by samuraijaques on Jul 16, 2017 17:40:56 GMT
The smokestacks for me are just no longer smokestacks. The way that I am painting my models is trying to suggest that my jacks don't run on fuel. They are just oozing blue magic stuff. The guns as well shoot magic now! deal with it . I actually did specifically look up how to do weathering effects and the instructions I found said to do the scratches the way that I did. Different styles I guess.
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Post by tapecrawler on Jul 16, 2017 22:09:53 GMT
Both Samurais have models that should make their owners proud! Lovely work on all of the models shown. Something that will help add dimension to the scratches on SamuraiJaques models would be to underline the line the scratches with a lighter color. With the "shadow" at the top of the scratch and an "edge highlight" on the bottom of the scratches, it will fool the eye into thinking there is more going on than three stripes of paint.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jul 17, 2017 7:31:57 GMT
The smokestacks for me are just no longer smokestacks. The way that I am painting my models is trying to suggest that my jacks don't run on fuel. They are just oozing blue magic stuff. The guns as well shoot magic now! deal with it . Environmentally friendly, I like it! Personally I'm leaning towards bioethanol as the most sustainable fuel source for my jacks. I'm planning to have a word with Irusk about that next time I see him. I actually did specifically look up how to do weathering effects and the instructions I found said to do the scratches the way that I did. Different styles I guess. That's interesting, I'm kinda curious to see those instructions. Do you by any chance have a link? Both Samurais have models that should make their owners proud! Lovely work on all of the models shown. That's very kind of you, thanks!
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Post by samuraijaques on Jul 17, 2017 8:35:33 GMT
The smokestacks for me are just no longer smokestacks. The way that I am painting my models is trying to suggest that my jacks don't run on fuel. They are just oozing blue magic stuff. The guns as well shoot magic now! deal with it . Environmentally friendly, I like it! Personally I'm leaning towards bioethanol as the most sustainable fuel source for my jacks. I'm planning to have a word with Irusk about that next time I see him. I actually did specifically look up how to do weathering effects and the instructions I found said to do the scratches the way that I did. Different styles I guess. That's interesting, I'm kinda curious to see those instructions. Do you by any chance have a link? Bioethanol sourced from the decomposing bodies of your enemies! And yes I do. Straight from GW themselves www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyuPxJG5kFc
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Post by samuraijaques on Jul 19, 2017 20:41:26 GMT
Working on a new highlighting technique for the black. doesn't show up super well in the photos but I think the model turned out well. trying to make the battle damage a little more focused instead of just slapping it all on willy nilly. I think it's an improvement over the juggernaut.
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Post by tapecrawler on Jul 19, 2017 22:47:13 GMT
Try taking a photo with a darker background. Cameras have a light meter that is calibrated to 18% gray. It measures the amount of light reflected into the lens. I've actually used the gray sandpaper as a backdrop and it worked remarkably well.
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