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Post by althor on Jun 29, 2017 17:57:43 GMT
Hello fellow Believers! I am a casual player playing mainly versus Circle, sometimes Cryx. I roughly have the whole army available on the self, minus one or two proxies that my opponents accept graciously. But I'm struggling versus Circle, and I would appreciate some advice. I know I can't beat him with speed or threat ranges, so I try to attrition him to get to a caster kill eventually. it works sometimes but recently, it's becoming harder and harder. I'm facing multiple wyrds (the one with 3 shots), loki, pureblood or stalkers, a fulcrum, reeves or ambushing wolves, druids and the usual stone, manikins. So i'm turning to you, what caster pops to your mind when you hear "circle" My best results come with sevy2, but I'm sure we as menites can manage another plan How do you deal with the wyrds? the fulcrum? Thanks in advance for your help
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 29, 2017 18:29:49 GMT
The big problem with circle is that they're a pretty diverse faction in terms of list archetypes that they can field so it will depend heavily upon what you're facing that day. That being said I would look to the following solutions.
Thyra in the guardians of the temple theme plays one of our fastest games. Run her with double daughters for sweet vengeance action and put occultation on a unit of flame bringers. I think you'll find that yes we actually can out speed circle if we build for it and you'll neuter his shooting elements with stealth. Wyrds will also struggle with any of our shielded jacks as long as you don't put an upkeep spell on them. Templars are nice for this as they also double as shield guards to mess with Loki's tricks.
Alternatively the high reclaimer can play into circle as the clouds will deny LOS for the shooting and long threat range tech you're seeing.
As a circle player I also wouldn't want to see Amon with a jack heavy list. I would find that very difficult to piece trade effectively against.
Unfortunately if you're seeing Wurmwood a lot then there's nothing for it but to use Sevy2. I can't think of anything else in faction that deals with the forest issue as efficiently as Sevy.
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Post by greytemplar on Jun 29, 2017 19:01:45 GMT
What exactly are you having problems with and how?
Got a specific example of something that went wrong in a game where you felt helpless?
On the Woldwyrd, don't let him near your units with upkeeps. The good news is he's fairly squishy. Something like a unit of flamebringers can hit and run against him and chew him up.
Vindictus might be a good idea. 3 units of KE and UAs, Flamebringers that charge 14.5". A feat that shuts down everything except magic guns. Even on wyrmwoods feat turn, I have walked troops right up to wyrmwood and smacked him to death. Knights can threat 8" just walking. Flamebringers threat 11.5".
Let him feat first, then walk the flamebringers through his feat to smack stuff. Side step backwards, reposition further back. Then counter feat. He can't charge you. He can't spell you.
Vindictus is basically a massive time lock that prevents alpha strikes while enabling your own.
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Post by paradox on Jun 29, 2017 19:44:12 GMT
High ARM or boxes without upkeeps mitigate wyrds, and we're pretty good at that. Effective use of Shield Guard prevents Loki abuse. Id look for reckoners, vessel of judgment, or soon revelator as high pow shooting options. Idrians can also help with effective CRAs and Prey swap. Durst or Amon can run a jack brick for more melee solutions. Im curious what warlocks you typically see.
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Post by althor on Jun 29, 2017 22:04:33 GMT
Thanks for these options, i'll give it a try. My opponent is quite good at changing the pace, one time he'll strike from afar, the next one rush my flanks with ambush. Maybe we don't set up right for a game. We just meet with a list, then we roll for scenario and terrain. but maybe we should prepare a pairing, even for casual games. The wyrds are in my opinion a real pain. i have to restrain my upkeeps as long as they are around. the threat of ambushing wolves on my support characters The reeves on any infantry I field, going to ground before retaliation sentry stone makes a forest and moves behind so that I don't see it. all those are problems I face regularly. i could certainly do better with my choices and placement, I just have to be patient. I tried vindictus, with the feat in mind, but he had only magical shooting with 6 manikins, 3 wyrds, fulcrum and pureblood (and animus) . so he did not charge me, but he hurt me pretty bad was just a bad matchup, i'll perform better next time. I have to paint my flamebringers first. so less upkeeps as long as the wyrds are present, try some of the casters you mentionned, more shield guards (had none in my last game versus his list full of guns) and the cavalry, I got some lists to build up. Thanks!
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jun 30, 2017 8:17:06 GMT
Rhoven supporting a Redeemer (Tristan1?) makes Sentry Stones very sad. In general PoM should win a shooting contest with Woldwyrds. They are just lights after all. As for Ambush, it's always a pain, just don't forget about it and stay out of range. Having some infatry clearing option handy (Ashes to Ashes, Vessel) when they appear can help. But mostly, don't forget, here's how I remember :
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Post by althor on Jun 30, 2017 9:42:48 GMT
Never thought of that tristant 1/redeemer combo, i'll give it a try for sure.
as for the ambush, I love that picture, and i do almost the same myself ^^
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Post by Dega1000 on Jun 30, 2017 9:59:21 GMT
Circle struggles against bricks of armor. The best choice imo is Amon with 10/12 jacks that run in face of him (not a brainless run, you have to position usefully). Of course, pay attention to incoming casterkills.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jun 30, 2017 12:41:18 GMT
as for the ambush, I love that picture, and i do almost the same myself ^^ Yeah, I once lost an entire unit of Flamebringers to some random ambushing froggies, because I totaly forgot about them and decided never want to go through this again
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Post by althor on Jun 30, 2017 14:58:15 GMT
I found most success with armor brick yes indeed. Thanks or your help
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 1, 2017 17:24:55 GMT
Rhoven supporting a Redeemer (Tristan1?) makes Sentry Stones very sad. In general PoM should win a shooting contest with Woldwyrds. They are just lights after all. As for Ambush, it's always a pain, just don't forget about it and stay out of range. Having some infatry clearing option handy (Ashes to Ashes, Vessel) when they appear can help. But mostly, don't forget, here's how I remember : Clever, but do remember that those ambush tokens would count against the 2 markers you are allowed to have on the table per the SR17 rules.
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Post by paradox on Jul 1, 2017 23:30:51 GMT
Rhoven supporting a Redeemer (Tristan1?) makes Sentry Stones very sad. In general PoM should win a shooting contest with Woldwyrds. They are just lights after all. As for Ambush, it's always a pain, just don't forget about it and stay out of range. Having some infatry clearing option handy (Ashes to Ashes, Vessel) when they appear can help. But mostly, don't forget, here's how I remember : Clever, but do remember that those ambush tokens would count against the 2 markers you are allowed to have on the table per the SR17 rules. Not at all. But Im not surprised because it seems many people get this all wrong. There are 3 types of tokens/markers. 1. Tokens and Templates. These represent spells, effects, and the like. These represent in-game effects. Ambush markers fit here. These are unlimited. 2. Proxy bases. When a model cannot be placed in its actual board position, a proxy base can be used to represent its actual, current position. These are unlimited, so long as they are necessary. 3. Table marker. This is used to measure a threat range, prospective movement, etc. this is the only marker subject to the two limit. cid.privateerpress.com/filedata/fetch?id=13209
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Post by greytemplar on Jul 2, 2017 2:58:28 GMT
Those Ambush markers do not fall into category 1. It's not an in-game effect till the actual Ambushing unit/model arrives.
Those Ambush reminders would fall into category 3, a marker of a possible movement or threat since they're only representing a potential thing. Not something that's actually in effect right now.
I personally wouldn't care, but others might. And technically they would be a table marker since they do not represent something that's happening right now.
If you simply moved them back to your table edge as a reminder I think nobody would mind them being a reminder, but putting them on the board edges is putting you into the danger zone.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Jul 2, 2017 3:57:22 GMT
Regarding the Wyrds and not using upkeeps... just think of it as a trade. Those Wyrds are mitigated by not using upkeeps, so you're removing tools from your opponent. Then when it's time to bust through, you can cast out and get work done. I've even played Kreoss3, arguably our most upkeep-laden Caster into Triple Wyrds and won. It's irritating and frustrating, but not impossible.
Just remember to make good trades. Expect whatever you put an upkeep on to die, so get good use of it before it goes...
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Post by paradox on Jul 2, 2017 13:25:13 GMT
Those Ambush markers do not fall into category 1. It's not an in-game effect till the actual Ambushing unit/model arrives. Those Ambush reminders would fall into category 3, a marker of a possible movement or threat since they're only representing a potential thing. Not something that's actually in effect right now. I personally wouldn't care, but others might. And technically they would be a table marker since they do not represent something that's happening right now. If you simply moved them back to your table edge as a reminder I think nobody would mind them being a reminder, but putting them on the board edges is putting you into the danger zone. Nope. They do not fit any of the enumerated, limited list in 3. They represent Ambush, which is in effect until the models are deployed.
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